The Atlantic City Line Thread

[ryanov]

As for the outrage at NJT, South Jersey's BS is a lot of the reason we're in this mess. Elect Christie, don't want to pay taxes, etc... eventually you get a non-functioning railroad. South Jersey also is so poorly developed -- housing developments in former cornfields all over the place -- that it's hard to properly serve with mass transit, so there isn't as much and people don't use what's there because it's not convenient.

I'm guessing you're not from South Jersey due to your idiotic post!

First and foremost, NJ Transit is the reason "we're in this mess", not South Jersey. South Jersey once hosted over two dozen short lines and railroads before they were gobbled up and consolidated by the PRR, and eventually turning into the PRSL, which was one of the most successful railroads in the state of New Jersey.

No, I'm not from South Jersey, but have plenty of experience visiting, because of family who have moved down there and a relationship I had in college with someone who went to Rowan. NJT has to work with the money it is provided, and never operated the PRSL. How is NJTransit to blame for the fact that the PRSL no longer runs? How much support for increased mass transit is there in South Jersey? From what I can see, the Republican representatives elected in most parts down there think mass transit is for communists. I am not the one voting for these people. And yes, that does not describe ALL of South Jersey -- there are urban areas.

Of all the municipalities in New Jersey to hold the label of City, Vineland is the largest in total area. Last time I checked, Vineland was located in South Jersey. And my "poorly developed housing development" in my beautiful Southern New Jersey town where I currently reside, is/was nowhere near a cornfield!!

Largest city in total land area is not a positive metric for mass transit service; surely you realize that larger/less dense make it more difficult to serve via mass transit. Vineland does have a variety of bus service. I've ridden many of those buses between Philadelphia and Glassboro. There are some towns that are walkable, generally ribbons of the area along former railroad lines, or along the AC Line. But there are just as many "towns" down there along "Something-Hyphen-Something" road with low density housing on big former cornfields. Even along the Atlantic City, we're not talking about arriving into a downtown at basically any stop.

Do your homework next time you post, and wherever you are from, do us all a favor here in South Jersey, and stay there!!!

I've done my homework and am quite happy up here. I would personally benefit from increased mass transit in NJ, and perhaps the political changes that have occurred down there in the past couple of election cycles will change the landscape there.

The long and short of it is that densely populated areas have mass transit: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... on_Map.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I honestly don't know if the majority of people live in densely populated parts of south Jersey or in "unincorporated areas," but this certainly makes it seem like the North is a lot more densely populated (with the exception of the west). https://statisticalatlas.com/state/New- ... Population" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[R&DB]

re:

ryanov » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:34 pm

Population of Atlantic + Camden + Burlington Counties = 1,229,223 (2017). The first map you referenced quite clear about this. Think they derserve some mass transit.

The predominate political bent in all three counties is Democrat. (ask Steve Sweeney) The only Republican majority area is now NJ Congessional District 4 which encompasses parts of Monmouth, Mercer and Ocean Counties.

Atlantic City RR (controlled by Reading RR), Camden and Atlantic RR (PRR) and West Jersey RR (PRR) merged in 1933 to become PRSL.
PRSL included in Conrail 1975 along with all the other defunct Northeast railroads.
NJT took over passenger operation of the ex-PRSL Conrail lines 1980.
Amtrak also operated with NJT after the advent of casino gambling in AC.
Amtrak pulled out around 1990.
The three original lines date to the 1850s to 1870s although only the Camden & Atlantic route is used by NJT. The ACRR route is used by Conrail Shared Assets (freight) from Camden to Winslow Junction.

Yes there are rural areas of South Jersey, but the majority of the people served by the NJT AC line are in the more populated areas and the suburbs.

North Jersey has major rural areas west of the Watchung Mountains with a sprinkling of larger towns. (ie: Morristown, Denville, etc.) Where should we cut off the ex-Lackawanna line, Summit? NJT goes NYP to Trenton through some areas that are not urban between New Brunswick and Trenton. Should we cancel that service? How about the Raritan Valley line west of Somerville? Galdstone Branch? Boonton Line?

[glennk419]

NJ Transit has announced service suspensions due to the impending snow:

AC Rail Line suspended Monday, March 4

Oh wait.

[lensovet]

I still don't understand what you guys are expecting.

Competence and truthful information. Crazy, I know, right?

You think NJT doesn't want to hire enough people to run all its trains on schedule and on time?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm starting to think. I'm starting to think that they'll decide that this "Staffing Shortage" is more than a temporary situation, and that economically with all the OT restoration of service will generate even if staffing levels return high enough to provide service, ridership and revenue will have atrophied from neglect to the point that it's economically not feasible to resume. Enjoy your bus.

Ok, service is resuming on May 15 with higher levels than before the suspension.

Can we take our tin foil hats off now?

[liftedjeep]

Can we take our tin foil hats off now?

There were never any "foil hats" on to begin with!

NJ Transit has consistently jerked around its riders here in South Jersey. From when the rail line abruptly closed back in September, to the "pulling of teeth" to get Transit to announce a date for service resumption.

Now that a date HAS been set forth, I, along with the rest of southern New Jersey are anxiously waiting for the trains to roll again. But I am still a bit skeptical and have every right to feel that way. Like I have stated in the past, I will believe NJ Transit has resumed service when I physically see a train on the Atlantic City Line. And yes, I will be out there May 12th with a camera in hand!

My apologies for yet another rant on this thread, but I find it funny that the members who seem to take issue with what is discussed or said regarding the Atlantic City Line's closure and the mess that followed, aren't even from the area or anywhere close. People who physically rely on the line, for whatever reasons they might be, are absolutely entitled to feel a certain way, have a bad taste in their mouths, and have thier own theories as to how this all began, and how it will ultimately end. They definitely shouldn't be mocked!

Ben

[JoeBas]

Can we take our tin foil hats off now?

There were never any "foil hats" on to begin with!

NJ Transit has consistently jerked around its riders here in South Jersey. From when the rail line abruptly closed back in September, to the "pulling of teeth" to get Transit to announce a date for service resumption.

Now that a date HAS been set forth, I, along with the rest of southern New Jersey are anxiously waiting for the trains to roll again. But I am still a bit skeptical and have every right to feel that way. Like I have stated in the past, I will believe NJ Transit has resumed service when I physically see a train on the Atlantic City Line. And yes, I will be out there May 12th with a camera in hand!

My apologies for yet another rant on this thread, but I find it funny that the members who seem to take issue with what is discussed or said regarding the Atlantic City Line's closure and the mess that followed, aren't even from the area or anywhere close. People who physically rely on the line, for whatever reasons they might be, are absolutely entitled to feel a certain way, have a bad taste in their mouths, and have thier own theories as to how this all began, and how it will ultimately end. They definitely shouldn't be mocked!

Ben

This.

If I tell you that jumping off this 25 foot high bridge into the rock-strewn river is dangerous - that other people have done it and been injured - and that it's risky for you to do so, and you still jump, and end up uninjured... it doesn't make me wrong. It makes you lucky.

[JeffersonLeeEng]

So, we lost Trains #4600 and #4652 (Late night/post-midnight train departures from AC) and #4611 (weekday pre-6am departure from 30th Street), and gained #4610 (weekday 5:45am-ish departure from AC) and #4660 (weekend 4:43am departure from AC, which is earlier than when #4662 was the first train on weekends at around 6:30am).

There's pretty much some across the board schedule time changes in the rest of the trains. I'm guessing the intended focus is to shift more workers commuting into Philly before 9am, but sacrifices the prospect of day-tripping by rail to AC.

Pre-PTC suspension schedule -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Upcoming schedule (effective May 12th) -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/upcoming/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rcthompson04]

So, we lost Trains #4600 and #4652 (Late night/post-midnight train departures from AC) and #4611 (weekday pre-6am departure from 30th Street), and gained #4610 (weekday 5:45am-ish departure from AC) and #4660 (weekend 4:43am departure from AC, which is earlier than when #4662 was the first train on weekends at around 6:30am).

There's pretty much some across the board schedule time changes in the rest of the trains. I'm guessing the intended focus is to shift more workers commuting into Philly before 9am, but sacrifices the prospect of day-tripping by rail to AC.

Pre-PTC suspension schedule -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Upcoming schedule (effective May 12th) -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/upcoming/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Focusing on commuters is probably the best strategy long term. Day trippers seem to be a dying breed. Maybe the better strategy would be to assign dual mode locomotives and originate at one of the stub tracks at Suburban.

[sammy2009]

So, we lost Trains #4600 and #4652 (Late night/post-midnight train departures from AC) and #4611 (weekday pre-6am departure from 30th Street), and gained #4610 (weekday 5:45am-ish departure from AC) and #4660 (weekend 4:43am departure from AC, which is earlier than when #4662 was the first train on weekends at around 6:30am).

There's pretty much some across the board schedule time changes in the rest of the trains. I'm guessing the intended focus is to shift more workers commuting into Philly before 9am, but sacrifices the prospect of day-tripping by rail to AC.

Pre-PTC suspension schedule -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Upcoming schedule (effective May 12th) -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/upcoming/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Focusing on commuters is probably the best strategy long term. Day trippers seem to be a dying breed. Maybe the better strategy would be to assign dual mode locomotives and originate at one of the stub tracks at Suburban.

I'd love for NJT to go into Suburban Station...is there a rule that will forbid that or something ? Would stopping at 30th St still be doable. ? And would SEPTA allow it ?

[glennk419]

So, we lost Trains #4600 and #4652 (Late night/post-midnight train departures from AC) and #4611 (weekday pre-6am departure from 30th Street), and gained #4610 (weekday 5:45am-ish departure from AC) and #4660 (weekend 4:43am departure from AC, which is earlier than when #4662 was the first train on weekends at around 6:30am).

There's pretty much some across the board schedule time changes in the rest of the trains. I'm guessing the intended focus is to shift more workers commuting into Philly before 9am, but sacrifices the prospect of day-tripping by rail to AC.

Pre-PTC suspension schedule -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Upcoming schedule (effective May 12th) -- https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/upcoming/R0090.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Focusing on commuters is probably the best strategy long term. Day trippers seem to be a dying breed. Maybe the better strategy would be to assign dual mode locomotives and originate at one of the stub tracks at Suburban.

I'd love for NJT to go into Suburban Station...is there a rule that will forbid that or something ? Would stopping at 30th St still be doable. ? And would SEPTA allow it ?

The biggest restricting factor with NJT going into Suburban is the height and exhaust of the diesel locomotives. The catenary is quite low through the tunnel and there is insufficient ventilation for the exhaust fumes. The 45DP's could circumvent that but I don't see NJT giving them up for the AC line.

[ExCon90]

And it's true that going into Suburban (involving a stop at 30th St. Upper Level) would bring an additional factor (SEPTA) into the picture. Adding a third participant would complicate things more than they are already. I would suppose that a lot of passengers destined Center City probably bail out at Lindenwold and take PATCO anyway, with four Center City stations instead of one. (Not a one-seat ride, admittedly.)

[mcgrath618]

According to their budget, SEPTA is actually looking into putting ventilation in the CCCT.

[chuchubob]

A "rust breaker" train was shuttling between Pennsauken TC and Atlantic City Tuesday with GP40PH-2B 4216 and cab car 6016, crossing Park Ave, Pennsauken, at 1:41.
It departed Pennsauken TC southbound at 1:52.

[glennk419]

A "rust breaker" train was shuttling between Pennsauken TC and Atlantic City Tuesday with GP40PH-2B 4216 and cab car 6016, crossing Park Ave, Pennsauken, at 1:41.
It departed Pennsauken TC southbound at 1:52.

That is a very positive sign. Thanks Bob.

[Launcher]

A "rust breaker" train was shuttling between Pennsauken TC and Atlantic City Tuesday with GP40PH-2B 4216 and cab car 6016, crossing Park Ave, Pennsauken, at 1:41.
It departed Pennsauken TC southbound at 1:52.

I saw the rust breaker train again this morning heading non-stop towards Pennsauken. I have been speculating that in addition to testing the equipment, the non-revenue trips could be in part due to the training of new engineers that are scheduled to graduate this May in order to be able to fill in the staffing void to operate the ACL and Princeton Dinky lines.