Feds fault NJ Transit crew for fatal train mishap

[Uzi-Cat]

I was just using that as an example of how NJT likes to add features but tells us to ignore them. Same for the amber and green brake lights on the sides of the cars. Just because the light is green, doesn't mean that the brakes are released on that car. It is disturbing.

[Grump]

I was told a while back WHEN WORKING PROPERLY that the amber "brakes applied" light comes on with a 12lb or more reduction (below 98lbs bp)....
A reduction less than 12lbs (above 98lbs bp) and its the green "brakes released" light....
So you still could have a 10lb reduction and and have all green...

I know, this is veering off topic....

[Uzi-Cat]

Ever see what happens on some cars when you go to EP Hold. Not all stay amber. Even when you get a good bite (over 12 PSI) you will get cars that the lights go green but the brakes aren't released. Seen it. But I guess it is OK as long as that daily inspection is signed and dated.

[frank502]

I think the amber/green lights on the outside of cars respond to brake cylinder pressure rather than brake pipe pressure. When sitting in a station in electric hold the lights will be amber while the brake pipe is back at 110.

I think it would be better if end doors had sliding windows so trainmen were better able to observe platforms.

I was led to believe that the equipment involved was configured in a way that allowed the bypass switches to be in bypass & the seal still be intact.
I thought that the engineer was required to check the seals.

[Uzi-Cat]

I think the amber/green lights on the outside of cars respond to brake cylinder pressure rather than brake pipe pressure. When sitting in a station in electric hold the lights will be amber while the brake pipe is back at 110.

They are supposed to which is why when you go to EP Hold, the lights stay amber. The brake pipe is charging back to 110 and the EP magnet valves are holding the air in the brake cylinder. Sometimes the magnet valves let go as soon as the brake valve is put into EP hold. THen you get one car releasing and knocking into the others.

I think it would be better if end doors had sliding windows so trainmen were better able to observe platforms.

NJT already has a rule where T&E employees are not to stick any part of the body outside opening windows. Doors to tend to open by themselves and would take a trainmans head with it. So even with the sliding windows, the NJT rulebook prohibits using them as they are intended.

I was led to believe that the equipment involved was configured in a way that allowed the bypass switches to be in bypass & the seal still be intact.

That was the standard operating procedure of the mechanical department for a long time. Seal the equipment so that when the Engineer inevitably has to go into bypass, he doesn't have to brake the seal. That way, the mech dept doesn't have to come out to reseal the equipment constantly, like they do now.

[/quote]I thought that the engineer was required to check the seals.

That is part of the pre-movement inspection. Of course, not everybody does that. At a glance, the seals can look sealed and actually be broken. I guess that is all up to the Engineer and how far they want to go. I am comfortable with the way I do it.

[Ken W2KB]

NJT already has a rule where T&E employees are not to stick any part of the body outside opening windows. Doors to tend to open by themselves and would take a trainmans head with it. So even with the sliding windows, the NJT rulebook prohibits using them as they are intended.

Makes sense from a safety standpoint. A rearview mirror mounted on the outside of the car, like on locomotives, would work. The Acelas even have a retractable mirror for the engineer to get a rear view.

[DutchRailnut]

yup and a few of those Acela Mirrors got ripped off in carwash, the opening now coverd with plywood

On MNCR bombardier cars after the doors close, the trainman can reopen the local door (without doorlight penalty) and observe the platform while pulling out, not many do but the option exists.

[ryanov]

Amtrak does that rather consistently on their Amfleet equipment. The way seems to be to close all of the doors and jam your shoe in your door to keep it from closing more than halfway. That would suggest to me an accident waiting to happen, but at least I guess someone is always carefully watching.

[DutchRailnut]

On MNCR bombardiers the only thing a trainman has to do is after doors are being closed by Conductor to keep his key in, and hit local door open.
Then put his foot in front of door and hold overhead handrail above the door. just incase the V-zero tries to close the door.

[thebigc]

On MNCR bombardier cars after the doors close, the trainman can reopen the local door (without doorlight penalty) and observe the platform while pulling out, not many do but the option exists.

See? I knew it was technically feasible. Usually, it takes a fatality to get the RR into motion but there still hasn't been a change in this regard on NJT.

[ryanov]

I'm assuming someone has tried to open local after the train has started moving? I guess the door being open would stop the train?

[Grump]

yup and a few of those Acela Mirrors got ripped off in carwash, the opening now coverd with plywood

One Amtrak guy was telling me that someone deadheading in the rear powercar cab decided to open up the mirror at 125, and it blew right off....

In any event getting back to opening doors locally. On Arrows, you can open up your local door while your key is in the panel, and the engineer will still have all his door lights. This works only on the MUs....

[DutchRailnut]

On MNCR cars the doorkey keeps the doorlight on, as it is wired to assume a conductor or trainman knows why they open a door while train is moving.
maybe somone on NJT can try it and see if it works same.

[Uzi-Cat]

With comet 2,3,4,5 equipment, you can put your key in the door panel, while moving, and push local open all day long. Nothing will happen. Once you get below a certain speed (the speed which is velocity zero, somewhere between 0-5MPH depending on equipment) you can open the doors.

[DutchRailnut]

Correct so the key out procedure when stopped should work, till about 5 mph when door will try to close, hence the foot.
You would still not lose a doorlight.