• Cuomo Announces Plan to Expand Penn Station

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, Kaback9, ACeInTheHole

  by DutchRailnut
 
the extra tracks (Penn south) would avoid a lot of deadhead moves to Sunny side or Meadow lands, and yes it was all part of gateway project. basically extending the area of old post office tracks .
  by Jeff Smith
 
Most I think will be stub tracks, so there will have to be equipment turns back to NJ. No matter what, if it happens, it's an improvement.
  by EuroStar
 
I am not sure if this is really going to happen. NY state building a new station for NJT and Amtrak? Sounds a little crazy to me.

There is no easy way to connect any of the new tracks to the tunnels going east to Long Island, so unless there is an unannounced plan for new East River tunnels, why is NY going to spend billions of dollars to build a terminal for NJT? While Amtrak has said that it will contribute money, NJ has said nothing. The new tracks also cannot connect to the existing North River tunnels, so until the new tunnels under the Hudson are built, the utility of this is zero. Cuomo will be out of the governor mansion before this has any chance to happen even if he runs for another term. This sounds more of a political posturing than a real plan to me.
  by DutchRailnut
 
they really need not have access to long island , just providing extra space to NJT will free up platforms on north side for LIRR and Amtrak.
  by Arlington
 
I wish we had a link to his presentation, but we do have this from Newsday:
Image
  by EuroStar
 
DutchRailnut wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:41 pm they really need not have access to long island , just providing extra space to NJT will free up platforms on north side for LIRR and Amtrak.
That is correct, but good luck convincing everyone including the politicians and the voters that building a new gleaming station for NJT just to get the dingy through tracks at the existing Penn free of NJT trains is a good investment. I do not disagree that this is the correct thing to build, just that it is a very hard sell politically. This is very similar to the reason why NJT has not built Penn South itself -- good luck convincing an NJ politician that investing billions of dollars into a station in another state is the proper thing to do.
  by Arlington
 
If they've cleared the lot, I might suggest stacking a NJT stub-end station atop an LIRR stub end station if there isn't quite space to
- curve south
- do a platform
- curve north

THen maybe as an alterantive
LIRR enters from east and curves south and has a longer platform on one level, with stairs/street exit on the west
NJT enters from west curves south and has a longer platform on another level, with stairs/street exit on the east
Last edited by Arlington on Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Jeff Smith
 
DutchRailnut wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:50 pm shows track map here : https://images.app.goo.gl/aKyNL3JLSRi21fdN7
That's a nice map. <FOAM>

More FOAM: the map almost tempts me to say they should connect the new Gateway tunnels to the High Line but keep going down 30th, turn north at Park, and have two elevated stations at at 7th and GCT. Yeah. Now that's some real FOAM!
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  by Jeff Smith
 
From Jaap's link:
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  by Arlington
 
Is there a reason, though, why LIRR couldn't have a few platforms on another level that would be "angled south" (on a slight diagonal vs the street grid?)
  by Jeff Smith
 
EuroStar wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:51 pm I am not sure if this is really going to happen. NY state building a new station for NJT and Amtrak? Sounds a little crazy to me.

There is no easy way to connect any of the new tracks to the tunnels going east to Long Island, so unless there is an unannounced plan for new East River tunnels, why is NY going to spend billions of dollars to build a terminal for NJT? While Amtrak has said that it will contribute money, NJ has said nothing. The new tracks also cannot connect to the existing North River tunnels, so until the new tunnels under the Hudson are built, the utility of this is zero. Cuomo will be out of the governor mansion before this has any chance to happen even if he runs for another term. This sounds more of a political posturing than a real plan to me.
NY is not building Penn South for NJ; all these travelers are working in New York, and paying taxes in NY, or spending money in New York. It's a win for New York. Yes, it does operationally benefit NJT and Amtrak, but it also benefits the MTA (LIRR and perhaps MNRR).

If you look at the track map, the Gateway tunnels have ladders both inbound to Penn and outbound to the North River tunnels as well.