• NJT HOBOKEN TERMINAL ACCIDENT THREAD

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, Kaback9, ACeInTheHole

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  by Backshophoss
 
TM,are you thinking there was a signal mixup in the MU control and Door Comm networks that could be part of the cause of
this accident? With the fact that the Loco's event recorder was nonfunctional,was there a problem with the control and air brake
systems at the loco?
  by Tommy Meehan
 
Backshophoss it sounds like it might be possible. It was a very unusual accident.
  by mmi16
 
jackintosh11 wrote:100 riders per car sounds low if it were packed. I'd say at least 150 per car if it was so full the conductor couldn't get through to collect fares.
100 passengers at 200 pounds per = 20,000 pounds = 10 tons

150 passengers at 200 pounds per = 30,000 pounds = 15 tons

a insignificant tonnage increase for anyone to notice in train handling
  by DutchRailnut
 
the Comet cars have load sensing, weight on airbags adjusts the brake rate, there is no known difference in braking unless track is slick.
  by justalurker66
 
In a 50 ton rail car does 10 tons of load vs 15 tons of load make that much of a difference in handling (60 tons vs 65 tons without arguing the assumptions in the math)?

Considering the full weight of the consist, the passengers are not the heaviest part of the train.
  by 8th Notch
 
Backshophoss wrote:TM,are you thinking there was a signal mixup in the MU control and Door Comm networks that could be part of the cause of
this accident? With the fact that the Loco's event recorder was nonfunctional,was there a problem with the control and air brake
systems at the loco?
I believe I saw somewhere that the NTSB already performed an air test with the accident set and found everything to be working correct on the mechanical side. I feel like this will be another unsolved mystery.
  by mmi16
 
The unanswered (and probably unanswerable) is why the throttle went from Idle to 4th notch and it took the operator 38 seconds to recognize this and return the throttle to Idle and place the brakes in Emergency.
  by MCL1981
 
Exactly. That is not a brake malfunction. That's not an air malfunction. The throttle was advanced by the human. And the human did not attempt to apply the brakes. The question is what malfunctioned with the human. That is and always will be the biggest point of failure in any mode of mass transportation.
  by JimBoylan
 
Even if the throttle movement and acceleration was caused by some defect or someone in the locomotive cab at the rear of the train, why did the engineer wait so long to do anything?
Can the data recorder in the Car Car disclose which throttle was moved? The date recorder in the locomotive is no help, since it wasn't recording.
  by 8th Notch
 
The event recorder only records data from the unit it is installed on so we know it was advanced on the active control stand. The throttle in locomotive would not be active since the reverser is removed and the gen field switch is off.
  by JimBoylan
 
8th Notch wrote:The throttle in locomotive would not be active since the reverser is removed and the gen field switch is off.
With "the gen field switch is off", how were the traction motors getting electricity?
  by 8th Notch
 
I'm not sure how NJT's cab cars are configured but the ones I've ran either have gen field switch physically in cab car or it is setup through the key you insert into the controller. Speaking in terms of someone being in the cab of the locomotive on the rear of the train.
  by DutchRailnut
 
engine run and generator field should only be on in lead locomotive, in this case that is the cab car !
  by mmi16
 
While 38 seconds may be an eternity on one frame of reference, it is less time than it takes any of us to make a post on here.
  by MCL1981
 
And much more time than it would take notice your train is doing double the speed limit along a platform approaching the end of the line. Pretending it's a really short amount of time does nothing.
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