Any chance NJT will get Amtrak's old rolling stock?

[jamesinclair]

While you might not like the transfer and the local service, the demand is not there for anything better. There are not enough commuters and other single-trip passengers during most times of the day. .

Except thats the thing: You dont know that. NJ Transit doesnt know that. Amtrak doesnt know that.

If you go back on this conversation, I said they need to do a real demand analysis.

That means looking at where commuters are going to. Population has changed significantly since the Clockers ended. Exurban counties are losing population. Companies are moving back into Center City Philly. Municipalities along the NEC, like New Brunswick, are booming.

Has service been modified to reflect these changes? Nope.

Saying "only 100 people a day do this trip now" is not an analysis because that only tells you that 100 people are willing to suffer the high cost and high time penalty of the existing "last option" setup.

A real analysis will determine how many people will opt for the train if the trip time is reduced by 30-40 minutes, something that is accomplished by eliminating the Trenton penalty and the SEPTA super-local.

Therese a common saying that you do not decide where to build a bridge based on how many people are currently swimming across the river. The same is true of transit service.

[TDowling]

except that with njt demand is everything apparently at least with rail ops. Other forms of transportation ie bus will probably take precedence over the train as far as non nyc and non philly travel. (remember that a number of private bus lines service nj) I could be wrong but I think the whole operating philosophy of njt rail ops is one along the lines of "we areabove all a secondary alternative form of travel for people commuting to new York or philly who don't want to spend hours stuck in the Lincoln tunnel lol"

[ryanov]

I gotta call BS here and stick up for Amtrak. You're generally not driving faster than Amtrak is, it's reasonably reliable, and it's definitely far safer than driving. It costs what it has to cost more or less, within the constraints applied to it. It also probably compares favorably to driving on cost, considering people never figure in all the costs when they're looking at how much driving will cost them.

[time]

It's also not fair to stick your finger in Amtrak's wound and point to it as a failure, when it doesn't get the level of support it should. Rail travel can compete with air travel and driving, especially with inter-city service. Delivering you from the heart of midtown New York to the heart of Boston or Philly or DC. Not an airport an hour outside of Manhattan, and another 40 minutes outside of another city. Or a car tunnel that takes an hour to get out of, for a two hour highway trip, to congested city streets and worrying about where to ditch the car. With proper support, Amtrak could rival what every other major industrialized country (China, Japan, England, France, Spain, etc, etc and so on) have been able to accomplish. We are so, so far behind.

The same is true for NJ Transit. It too could be an amazingly reliable, efficient and convenient service; the economic engine of New Jersey, bringing more and more people to and from high paying NYC jobs to their lovely homes in the urban centers just outside of NYC and suburbs beyond. To be fair, it's come a long, long way from 1983. But, it has so much more potential. The capital investments since 1983 have paid off big time. Midtown Direct service is a tremendous success, and it can be replicated again and again in other counties on the Raritan Line, Boonton Line, Bergen County Lines, etc. Yes, billions of dollars of investment, but those investments will last hundreds of years and provide - potentially - trillions in economic impact for New Jersey for the generations to come.