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  • Why are NJ Transit trains so slow?

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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 #1369886  by Fan Railer
 
timz wrote:And trains on the outside tracks are never allowed more than... 110? If the two center tracks are 125 mph for Amtrak the outside tracks are likely 100.
The outer tracks are 110. Amtrak services that use the outer tracks top out at this speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1N-efaS6A8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1403691  by F23A4
 
ThirdRail7 wrote:I'll field this one. You were following a Coast Line down three while the Amtrak operated down four. You were held at Iselin, to follow the Amtrak down four. Why? Because unbeknownst to you, one of the reasons the schedule is slow is because there is a major, long term track outage between NBK-TRE. 4 tracks have shrunk to three. Therefore, you followed the train that isn't going to make any stops until it TRE after it leaves MET instead of putting the train that will make four stops and operates at a lower speed ahead. 2 track wasn't an option since there was an Acela heading west on 2.

The schedule is actual set up for certain trains to hold at Ham, County and Iselin to accommodate the track work. I mean, you could always give up your express to decrease the amount of trains since the amount of trains scheduled is based upon all tracks being in service. That would likely reduce the holds.
Good info. Thanks. 👍
 #1403837  by twropr
 
In the early '70's when the Arrows were new, NJ Transit ran train #3814, which left Trenton at 6:49 am and arrived NY at 7:44 am, stopping at Princeton Jct. and making a "D" stop at Newark. It was the only NJT train whose schedule was based upon a maximum speed of 100 MPH.
An 11/8/15 shows the fastest train to be #3914, leaving Trenton at 6:01 am and arriving NY at 7:09, with stops at Hamilton, Princeton Jct., Newark and Secaucus. #3814 made the 38.4-mi PJct-Nwk run in 30 min, and #3914 takes 33 min. Progress?
BTW there was some fallout from the overhaul (by ?GE) of the Arrows that caused the max. speed to be reduced from 100 to 80.
Andy
 #1403843  by SemperFidelis
 
It might not be great progress, but considering the extra stop at Secaucus (and that is a very, very valuable stop) it isn't really all that bad that it takes an extra 3 minutes.

The NEC trains and the Metro North West of Hudson express service trains are the only runs on the transit system that are reasonably fast. If you want to complain about slowness, try taking a train on the Boonton Line from pretty much anywhere on the line to Hoboken or (via transfer) NY Penn. As noted elsewhere, bus service beats this line hands down.

I still have no idea, what with the appearance of the ALP 45DPs, why Midtown Direct service isn't simply extended past Monclair State University and onto the WORM section of the Boonton Line. Sure, it probably wouldn't gain many additional riders, but since the service is there with diesel units anyway, why not eliminate those shuttles and simply run the trains as Midtown Direct service? Would that not actually save a set or two of equipment? Instead of running a diesel from Hackettstown or Lake Hopatcong or wherever service originates, run a dual mode that gets into MSU at the time when a Midtown Direct train would have left, hoist up the pantograph, and run into NY Penn. i just don't get why they don't do it. Seems a no brainer...but perhaps there are reasons.
 #1403847  by time
 
SemperFidelis wrote:I still have no idea, what with the appearance of the ALP 45DPs, why Midtown Direct service isn't simply extended past Monclair State University and onto the WORM section of the Boonton Line. Sure, it probably wouldn't gain many additional riders, but since the service is there with diesel units anyway, why not eliminate those shuttles and simply run the trains as Midtown Direct service?
I'm pretty sure it has to do with tunnel capacity under the Hudson and station capacity at New York Penn, especially at peak periods when the service would be most useful.

There are projects in force to cure both of those bottlenecks, so I'd like to see the Boonton line upgraded with a passing siding and catenary so when the day comes the line is ready to roll to Midtown. The dual modes are all good and great, but the catenary would provide more operational flexibility, in a case where the scheduled train with a dual mode loco breaks down they can use an electric. Using all electric trains might also help to keep the regal Montclairians quieter on the increase of trains rolling through their backyards.
 #1403853  by SemperFidelis
 
It isn't a tunnel capacity issue as the Midtown Direct trains that originate at MSU at present already have thier own slots. All I am suggesting is simply using those same trains and those same tunnel slots and starting them out at Port Morris Yard or wherever. That eliminates a diesel shuttle trainset and at the same time offers Midtown Direct service to anyone foolhardy enough to use it west of Montclair.

I agree that catenary would be nice, but with diesel territory ending way out at Hackettstown and with that odd spur to Andover coming on line (one day) as diesel, it might make sense just to go with dual modes. At the very least, wire should be strung up to Port Morris. The yard out there should be rebuilt to handle all of the trains presently in the little yard at Dover and also up at Great Notch. Lake Hopatcong and Mount Arlington Park and ride should be expanded exponentially as having electric service at those stations would allow a no transfer, one seat ride to Midtown Manhattan.

But then we're back to the original point of this thread: Would NJ Transit actually run a train fast enough from Mount Arlington to actually compete with the bus service presently availale? I have my doubts.

Forgive an adventure into Foamerville... Wouldn't it be nice to see the old Lower Boonton, the original Erie and Greenwood Lake from Montclair east to Hoboken, rebuilt and used as a sort of bypass for non Midtown Direct trains originating in WORM territory? While not ideal, trains from far out on the system could run all necessary stops west of Montclair, do at stop at MSU so people could transfer to Midtown trains if needs be, and then run no stops to Hoboken. All of the Montclair stops and stops east could be eliminated and a goodly amount of time could be saved without interfering with trains on the old Lackawanna Montclair Branch. It would never happen, of course, and chances are those trains would end up stopping at the stations that were abandoned when the Montclair Connection opened, thus eliminating most of the time savings anyway. Like I said, just a quick trip into Foamerville.
 #1403931  by trainbrain
 
The way the Port Jervis Line is run works pretty well. Trains make all stops to Suffern, then some make Ramsey 17 and/or Ridgewood and run express to Secaucus. Local service operates to the stations further east. There are a few exceptions that are fully local, but most are express.

I don't see why the other lines can't run like this too.
 #1403992  by time
 
The Morris & Essex line generally runs this way, with local service to Summit then express to Newark Broad. Of course, there are some high passenger volume stations along the way, so additional stops are made via skip-stop service to help ease the demand on the local and provide those high demand stations better service. Sometimes it just makes sense to stop, like when you would otherwise just be sitting idle waiting for the train in front of you to clear.
 #1403994  by time
 
SemperFidelis wrote:It isn't a tunnel capacity issue as the Midtown Direct trains that originate at MSU at present already have thier own slots. All I am suggesting is simply using those same trains and those same tunnel slots and starting them out at Port Morris Yard or wherever. That eliminates a diesel shuttle trainset and at the same time offers Midtown Direct service to anyone foolhardy enough to use it west of Montclair.
Oh, I see now. I automatically thought of "extending" as creating more MidTOWN direct services that express through Montclair / Glen Ridge / Bloomfield .
 #1404034  by trainbrain
 
twropr wrote:In the early '70's when the Arrows were new, NJ Transit ran train #3814, which left Trenton at 6:49 am and arrived NY at 7:44 am, stopping at Princeton Jct. and making a "D" stop at Newark. It was the only NJT train whose schedule was based upon a maximum speed of 100 MPH.
An 11/8/15 shows the fastest train to be #3914, leaving Trenton at 6:01 am and arriving NY at 7:09, with stops at Hamilton, Princeton Jct., Newark and Secaucus. #3814 made the 38.4-mi PJct-Nwk run in 30 min, and #3914 takes 33 min. Progress?
BTW there was some fallout from the overhaul (by ?GE) of the Arrows that caused the max. speed to be reduced from 100 to 80.
Andy
I believe all the schedules are based on 80 mph because in some cases they can't control whether a train uses an Arrow set or a Comet or Multilevel set. In that case, the schedule gets those extra 3 minutes from there. If the schedule is still based on 100 mph, the multilevels (which operate most if not all of the 3900 series trains) take longer to get up to speed than the arrows do. Also, not only did they add Secaucus as a stop, but Hamilton was added as well.

I believe that once all the Arrows are put out to pasture that the schedules will be changed to 100 mph. Most are already gone from the NEC and their trips are being operated by Comet sets.