Newark Airport Air Train to be replaced

[philipmartin]

Another replacement possibility for the monorail: put the rail above the train instead of under it. Presumably that would make snow removal easier. Here's a video of the Japanese Shonan line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvgTr37v0EE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lensovet]

Don't get me started on that PATH extension. IMHO it is the result of NJ/NY politics as usual (and how different favors can get handed out and pockets lined), and not the result of a careful best bang for the buck analysis. JS

Hey come on, why have a consolidated Newark Penn Station with PATH, EWR Monorail, NJT, Amtrak, Light Rail, and Bus all under one roof, when you can build a massive, hard on the eyes, train traffic slowing, new station in the middle of a brownfield with no connection to the outside world. FML.

why yes, let's make a mega-terminal where clueless tourists and airline passengers with massive luggage get to interfere with the commutes of local residents/employees. all in a historic building which makes moving with said luggage a nightmare. brilliant!

imho a dedicated station is actually better, it segregates airport passengers from everyone else and allows for easier mobility for those traveling to the airport due to proper escalators, elevators, clearances, etc.

[F40]

I believe the PA can use the $1.5+ billion on other much needed projects (such as upgrading the outdated PABT). A monorail instead (connecting NWK to EWR, and which goes on to the terminals) will inherently be much less expensive to build, is best for sustainable mobility, and will virtually eliminate the pressure to raise fares from lengthening the heavy rail system (which will simply terminate at EWR station). The Park & Ride can still be built next to EWR which is a nifty idea. IN addition, they still have to figure out how to accommodate a larger size monorail at the terminals because the current AirTrain is not cutting it (this also looks like $$).

[Hawaiitiki]

Hey come on, why have a consolidated Newark Penn Station with PATH, EWR Monorail, NJT, Amtrak, Light Rail, and Bus all under one roof, when you can build a massive, hard on the eyes, train traffic slowing, new station in the middle of a brownfield with no connection to the outside world. FML.

why yes, let's make a mega-terminal where clueless tourists and airline passengers with massive luggage get to interfere with the commutes of local residents/employees. all in a historic building which makes moving with said luggage a nightmare. brilliant!

imho a dedicated station is actually better, it segregates airport passengers from everyone else and allows for easier mobility for those traveling to the airport due to proper escalators, elevators, clearances, etc.

Your clueless passengers with bags are still on NJT and PATH trains regardless, and these clueless passengers could avoid the confusion of the relatively small city of Newark(compared to NYC, Bos, Phila, DC) having two mainline NEC stations rather than one.

I get your unease regarding the luggage lemmings functioning amongst the daily commuters in Newark and an air train monorail station tainting the history of Newark Penn, however decent signage and a properly built annex building (ala Jamaica LIRR) matching Newark Penn's relatively easily replicable brickface could have alleviated a majority of the problems. I don't understand the anxiety with a so-called "Mega-terminal", the more connections under one roof, the better. Not to mentioned anything to get people to spend a few dollars in downtown Newark would have been welcomed with open arms, especially 10-15 years ago.

Suppose it's all here nor there at this point, since we we're stuck with the discount steel structure in a brownfield.

[ccutler]

I still can't get over the fact that the PA bought a cheap system that wasn't capable of handling snow. Was that incompetence, corruption, or both?

[pumpers]

I still can't get over the fact that the PA bought a cheap system that wasn't capable of handling snow. Was that incompetence, corruption, or both?

As I said earlier, IMHO, PATH decisions are

the result of NJ/NY politics as usual (and how different favors can get handed out and pockets lined)

with good engineering being low on the list of priorities. J.S.

[lensovet]

Hey come on, why have a consolidated Newark Penn Station with PATH, EWR Monorail, NJT, Amtrak, Light Rail, and Bus all under one roof, when you can build a massive, hard on the eyes, train traffic slowing, new station in the middle of a brownfield with no connection to the outside world. FML.

why yes, let's make a mega-terminal where clueless tourists and airline passengers with massive luggage get to interfere with the commutes of local residents/employees. all in a historic building which makes moving with said luggage a nightmare. brilliant!

imho a dedicated station is actually better, it segregates airport passengers from everyone else and allows for easier mobility for those traveling to the airport due to proper escalators, elevators, clearances, etc.

Your clueless passengers with bags are still on NJT and PATH trains regardless, and these clueless passengers could avoid the confusion of the relatively small city of Newark(compared to NYC, Bos, Phila, DC) having two mainline NEC stations rather than one.

I get your unease regarding the luggage lemmings functioning amongst the daily commuters in Newark and an air train monorail station tainting the history of Newark Penn, however decent signage and a properly built annex building (ala Jamaica LIRR) matching Newark Penn's relatively easily replicable brickface could have alleviated a majority of the problems. I don't understand the anxiety with a so-called "Mega-terminal", the more connections under one roof, the better. Not to mentioned anything to get people to spend a few dollars in downtown Newark would have been welcomed with open arms, especially 10-15 years ago.

Suppose it's all here nor there at this point, since we we're stuck with the discount steel structure in a brownfield.

funny you mention Jamaica. even for a seasoned rail fan, it's a bit overwhelming with the different platforms, destinations, etc (I speak from personal experience earlier this year). EWR on the other hand is much simpler – just pick north or south, and any train will do.

I do wonder what it would take to simply reuse the JFK AirTrain at Newark. Are the dimensions that much larger? Would that system support single-tracking on some segments? At least that system has proven itself in numerous winters by now.

[kilroy]

I do wonder what it would take to simply reuse the JFK AirTrain at Newark

Where's the waste and mismanagement in that??? You know the PA doesn't operate like that.

[F40]

It makes too much sense. But all joking aside, if this extension moves forward as is, that's the last straw in my book. We may be able to thank the politicians who brought pressure against this extension recently (by PATH, not by other means) after all.

[lensovet]

something to think about…

service is currently being operated by Bombardier, which acquired Adtranz, which acquired Von Roll. Bombardier is also the operator of AirTrain JFK.

JFK is 8 miles long and cost $2 billion 10 years ago. One would hope that Newark can be built for, say, half that, given that its total length is 3 miles.

[Semaphore Sam]

All over the world, the solution has been a direct link to a central station, off the main line, where no transfer is necessary; that is, a central passenger station for mainline trains, with 'people movers' to the various terminals, minimizing transfers and bag-drags. Why this wasn't done in the 90's is quite apparent: two entities, both noxious to the interests of passengers 1) The PA, a highly corrupt entity, and 2) The 5 NY Families, and the NJ Family, somewhat less corrupt, but, nonetheless, still stultifying. Any reasonable solution will, needs be, have to eliminate the influence of these two entities; Good Luck With That!
So Newark, JFK, LaGarbage, continue living with your transport HELL, it ain't gonna end anytime soon, not with the present political set-up. Sam

[Tom V]

Regarding the PATH extension to EWR, the notion being bantered about here and by other "Transit advocates" that the funds to build the PATH extension to EWR would or could be transfered to another PA project like a new Bus terminal or the Hudson tunnels is FALSE!

The source of funding for the new PATH extension will be PFC's that passengers pay on tickets at Newark Airport. PFC's are Passenger Facility Charges,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_improvement_fee

These fees are fees added to airline tickets and can be tapped by airport operators for improvements to the airport, mass transit connections to Airports also qualify. EWR's Monorail Airtrain was built with PFC's, as was the extension to the NEC. In order to recoup the PFC's from people who might use the Airtrain but not be flying thus not paying a PFC, such as airport workers, they had to put those fare gates in the Rail link station to recover the PFC's from all passengers.

Basically how it works is the airport operator, Port Authority of NY and NJ, issues bonds to build a project and then covers the debt payments via the PFC's that are collected from airport travelers.

PFC's are not a source of revenue that can be reallocated to non airport facilities, and the PATH extension is not using regular Port Authority sources of revenues for it's constructions (tolls, Lease payments etc..) so building the PATH extension to EWR has no negative impact on other Transportation projects in the region *(Hudson Tunnel, PABT etc..). If anything it helps with the redevelopment of the World Trade Center by offering tenants, visitors and workers a direct connection to a major international airport thus helping to boost trade and commerce.

In the context of the PFC's the PATH extension is a worthy project.

[time]

Thank you for the insight into financing, Tom V.

Very interesting. PATH extension to EWR is a worthy project, but I think it should be separate from transportation within the airport. Just pointing that out, for anyone who thinks PATH could replace the Newark Airport Air Train.

I really like the Japanese Shonan Line concept. Has it proven to be reliable, especially in ice/snow?

[35dtmrs92]

To expand on the points made by Tom V, we need to remember that the EWR PATH extension will also give Harrison and parts of Jersey City a one seat ride to the Airtrain station. Remember too that Journal Square is a major bus hub for Hudson County. Let's also not forget about the other stops on the PATH system which will then be within two seats of the EWR station or the NYC subway riders in Brooklyn who will have a two seat ride via WTC to the same. Having lived in Hoboken for four years, I can say that I would have welcomed being able to avoid using NJT rail to reach EWR. The project will open up a lot more possibilities for which IMO it has not been getting due credit.

[F40]

Good explanation. However, this does not change the fact that this is absolutely not the most efficient method to move people from point A to point B. The charge for the current monorail as is (being $5.50 per person) makes other methods of travel much more competitive. It is wasteful spending to bring PATH to EWR when a monorail will do the connection just as well with a lot less operating costs. Now with PFC's, the cost is not a burden to PA but passed onto everyone who buys a ticket. Folks who live in Brooklyn are not going to transfer for a 3 seat ride to EWR. The connection to PATH takes a chunk of time to make (on top of the slow subway) and is absolutely not competitive (time wise or other). They are going to get a ride via a friend/family member, or drive themselves to a nearby cheaper off airport parking facility which are more time and cost effective.

In addition, if you look at the studies of projected daily ridership for EWR, bringing a 7-10 car PATH train through (with energy seeping low voltage 3rd rail) is incredibly wasteful. To use funds from PFC's, the FAA has to approve the project and depending on what parts they approve, the project may likely require PA funds and state funds to cover the rest (as was the case with JFK AirTrain). I can hardly see a benefit to this project when you can have passengers transfer at NWK instead to a much more energy efficient monorail (take Bombardier's Innovia APM for example used in many airports in the US and around the world, mentioned earlier).