Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

[LI Loco]

As G-d is my witness, I had no prior knowledge this was in the works, but I am glad to see NJ Transit and I are on the same wavelength. Here is a link to the info for the project on their website.
http://www.njtransit.com/an_cp_project068.shtml

[Irish Chieftain]

Utterly useless what with traffic being backed up beyond Exit 25 nowadays. And that's still well over 70 miles away from Scranton; and you do get jam-ups on I-80 way back into PA. You can bet that bus companies like Martz and Royal will not serve this location.

The last estimate for restoration of rail service between Port Morris and Scranton was $350 million—certainly not a "fortune" by today's standards.

[sodusbay]

LI Loco,

Your idea (and it seems NJT's) is really, really good:

1. Low cost so it can get done soon
2. It will demonstrate clearly the demand if done right
3. It will solve problems in NJ so the local political support should be there
4. It will prepare the E end of the RR for eventual expansion onto the cutoff

As those well-known transportation planners Jagger & Richards wrote:
"You can't always get what you want...(the cutoff)...but if you try sometimes, you just might find...you get what you need!"

[james1787]

What line will this Roxbury station be on? Is that on the Dover line?

[LI Loco]

Operationally, it's the Boonton line. The trains are diesel-powered, originate in Hackettstown or Netcong and run to Hoboken via the Boonton Line east of Denville. Passengers can change at Dover for Midtown Direct service to Penn Station, which runs over the Morris & Essex line.

[nick11a]

^Diesel Trains on the MnE operate out to/from Hackettstown, Mount Olive and Lake Hopatcong as well.

[NJTRailfan]

Yep, by the time the year 2012 comes in. The olympics in NYC will probably happen, The new WTC will defiantly be built. The Mt Arlington P/R Station will FINALLY BE ON LINE..........Yet the cutoff is still untouched. Progress moves too damn slow at NJT to the point where NJ residents are goign to throw up their arms on or around 2012 and in fustration shout out "Why bother!?!" hopefully atleast full electrification of boonton and NJ coast lines will happen along with either MOM or W Trenton. That hopefully will happen on or by 2012.

[thebigc]

Operationally, it's the Boonton line. The trains are diesel-powered, originate in Hackettstown or Netcong and run to Hoboken via the Boonton Line east of Denville. Passengers can change at Dover for Midtown Direct service to Penn Station, which runs over the Morris & Essex line.

The Boonton line, or Montclair-Boonton line, runs from Roseville Av. to Denville. Denville West to Hackettstown is the M&E.

[henry6]

It depends...BIGC...what timetable you read. NJT omits some trains on Morristown Line tables Denville and west and other trains omitted from the Boonton Line table. Trains 880 and 882 show departing H'twn and #879 shown arriving in the M'twn table but none are in the B-Mtc table. If the B-Mtc table were to believed the last departure from H'twn is at 8:10 in the morning! There are several others, too.

[thebigc]

I refer to my employee timetable.

[henry6]

The same is true in the employee timetable. This table is just the public table with deadhead and yard moves and does not give operating authority as did the "old" timetable system. I went into it last night after makeing the above post and am trying to flgure out on what authority a train runs. I think under the new operating rules are for running trains and and not railroads: the dispatcher has to give each train, whether in the timetable or not, a form which allows it to leave and operate.

Under the old system, yes there was a clearance card (and train orders if necessary) which just showed that it was OK to operate then the crew was able to operate because they timetable gave them the authority and rights; today the dispatacher appears to hold all authority. Therefore if there is a problem enroute, the dispatcher has to be notified and it is he who makes a determination as to how to proceed. Timetable authority gave the train authority to operate by time, right, and seniority, and made special provisions for special cases and situations, and allowed the train crew to make best judgement evaluations for proceeding. It was quick and efficient. Railroads operated rather than trains just move.

[thebigc]

Actually our employee TT is the authority to operate on the Pascack Valley line west of Fairmont Av., which is where the yard limits end. Otherwise, on the Hoboken division, signal indication is our authority to move.

The last line to use train orders - APB was the Gladstone branch. Its now 261 - ABS.

[JA]

Utterly useless what with traffic being backed up beyond Exit 25 nowadays. And that's still well over 70 miles away from Scranton; and you do get jam-ups on I-80 way back into PA. You can bet that bus companies like Martz and Royal will not serve this location.

I wouldn't make such a bet. TransportAzumah (operated by Royal Lines) has been looking to serve this location since November. We are currently looking into markets and how we can make it beneficial for both us and Lakeland.

[hsr_fan]

So, what exactly is the status of this project, and what needs to happen in order for it to move forward? The acquisition of the Lackawanna Cutoff property and subsequent surveys seems to indicate that New Jersey is serious about restoring rail service. But are there people currently working on the project as part of their daily job? Is New Jersey waiting for federal funds? Where is the money that Pennsylvania has contributed for its portion of the upgrades? Sitting in an account somewhere?

Having ridden aboard a Steamtown excursion from Scranton to Moscow, I'd say the tracks between Scranton and the Delaware Water Gap certainly need upgrades for commuter service. It's jointed rail, maybe good for 40 mph, and I'm not sure if it's signaled or if it's dark territory.

Given the slow pace of the project, might it be reasonable to extend rail service incrementally, perhaps initially going only as far as Stroudsburg? That area seems to produce much of the I-80 traffic. I don't know how much that would reduce the cost of the project. I certainly don't see how it could possibly cost anywhere near $350 million just to re-lay track along the cutoff right of way from Port Morris to the Water Gap. I suppose station construction must be considered, but minimal platforms would do. Also, I don't know if new locomotives and coaches would have to be purchased, but given that NJ Transit doesn't have spare equipment right now, I would assume so.

I must say, it's disheartening to see the lack of progress on rail projects in this region. There have been some things that surprised me, such as South Jersey's River Line, but so many worthwhile projects can't seem to get off the ground. The Lackawanna Cutoff and the Freehold/Lakewood MOM proposals make too much sense to not pursue. I'm also quite disgusted with the New York high speed rail/Turboliner fiasco, but that's another story...

[thebigc]

Having ridden aboard a Steamtown excursion from Scranton to Moscow, I'd say the tracks between Scranton and the Delaware Water Gap certainly need upgrades for commuter service. It's jointed rail, maybe good for 40 mph, and I'm not sure if it's signaled or if it's dark territory.

This trackage was once ABS/251 territory but CR fixed that around 1980 or so. Now its DCS(manual block) territory.

The cutoff would have gone much smoother if all the counties involved could have come up with the money to buy it intact. What was the figure, 5.5 million or so? Instead CR takes up the rail for their ever-important CWR plant. As if 26 miles of relay rail for a 13,000 mile railroad was a deal-breaker. What a crock! Then CR gives the ROW to Turco for a million dollars.

And here we are 21 years later looking at a $750 million price tag.

Talk about lack of foresight! But that was common regarding commuter rail at the time...