• Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, Kaback9, ACeInTheHole

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  by Lackawanna484
rvrrhs wrote:
sullivan1985 wrote:
Lackawanna484 wrote:My suspicion is NJT has many, many things ahead of the Cut-Off on its plate. The roadbed and bridge aren't going anywhere, so sit tight.
Agreed... NJT does seem to be kind abusy one day, and as if now, the demand is still not looking strong enough for the people to be begging for an alternate form of transit.

But every year, more and more people are flocking to the country side of NJ and PA and one day, the Cut-Off will happen. Maybe sooner or later than the expected 2010 that transit told us on its project page, but it will happen...
Remember, the cost will just keep escalating, so we're all better off spending 2010 dollars than 2020 dollars on such a huge project. What's the difference in cost on constructing the new Hudson River tunnel between when it was originally conceived and now? How much more would it cost now to build a twin to the Goethals Bridge than to have done it back in the 1930s when they built the first one? How much more will it cost to build the additional on/off ramps from I-78 to the GSP, the ones they didn't build in the 1960s when they were expecting to run I-278 from Springfield to Elizabeth?
That's not always true.

If a project, like the Goethals Bridge, is funded with tolls, you want the toll revenue to cover the cost of the bond retirement, which is driven by the cost of the project. The Goethals was almost 20 years old when it began to bump against capacity issues. Had the original bridge been 16 lanes wide, toll revenues would never had secured the obligations.

A well conceived project will allow for expansion at a lower cost, such as the Garden State Parkway, which originally had a quarter mile of woods separating the directions from 127 south to 82. And, about 600 feet of woods through Kenilworth, Clark, Woodbridge, etc. Mostly gone, now.

Or, the GWB, whose supports were designed to hang another deck underneath, and to run to subways and/or Public Service Railway across.

  by rvrrhs
Agreed, but it is still easier to pay off a $20 billion bond than a $40 billion bond.

  by Tri-State Tom
Somewhere within these multiple Cut-Off threads is the report of NJT's public meetings last Summer in Sussex and E.Stroudsburg where they made a horrible factual case in projected ridership #'s and # of cars/traffic being removed from I-80 should this project go forward.

It was appallingly pathetic....so much so that several folks got the didtinct impression that NJT purposely low-balled the projections to derail interest as well as what little momentum this project has had on both sides of the Delaware River.

Couple this with the recent retirement of Morris County tansportation chief Frank Reilly - THE driving force in keeping the rebirth of the Cut-Off alive for the last 20-odd years - and the outlook looks anything but promising for train service between Hoboken and Scranton.

  by Lackawanna484
Thre's very little interest in Sussex County and northern Warren County NJ for the Cut-Off. The state senators show minimal interest, as they did with the NYSW plan. Sen Littel's office told me they get maybe one phone call a month about the NYSW last year, and I'd bet it's the same for the Cut-Off this year. Compare that with THOUSANDS about the bear hunt.

Rep Rod Frelinghuysen sends over millions to keep the engineering going, and give some cover to his Pennsy colleagues, but I'd suspect he isn't hearing any groundswell of demand, either.

Many people in Sussex County would love to put up a wall to keep any new neighbors from moving in. The last thing they want to do is make it easier
  by henry6
...from many is the congestion on RT 80 has to be dealt with...cars and trucks...many complaints of it being a "parking lot" east of Hope between 5:30 and 8:30 each morning. Even if residents of Warren and Sussex counties indicaate no now, if built it is presumed they will use it. A lot of commuter traffic is from PA. Whether for commuter traffic, inter city traffic, easing things for truckers on RT80, whether for today or tomorrow or next decade, the idea is a good one and a good one now. Wait until its too late and its too late.

  by rvrrhs
Lackawanna484 wrote:Thre's very little interest in Sussex County and northern Warren County NJ for the Cut-Off. The state senators show minimal interest, as they did with the NYSW plan. Sen Littel's office told me they get maybe one phone call a month about the NYSW last year, and I'd bet it's the same for the Cut-Off this year. Compare that with THOUSANDS about the bear hunt.
We could kill two birds with one stone by moving some of those "excess" bears to a new habitat on the Cut-Off.... :wink:

  by NJTRailfan
That's the state of NJ for you. People wil lgo nuts over the bears and a new Walmart comming in but yet there would be no way to releave the congestion because these sheep er people are against it or they don't care for it.

Somehow there should be a cure to the disease in NJ that makes people think that you can expand highways like 46 and 80 to 10 lanes and your problems will mysteriously go away.

  by Bensalem SEPTA rider
By the time they get this thing going, Sussex and Warren counties, as well as the poconos will begin to look like Long Island. Why can't they realize that of you get it done now you'll have the future groundwork in place to handle the extra people. The fact is that rail line or not, people are going to move to the country. Period. So why not make it easier for ALL of us to enjoy it. Boy, you adults sure make things complacated :wink: .

  by njtmnrrbuff
Even better, all over the US especially in rural areas with an easy reach from Metropolises, it should look like England where you have train service everywhere.

  by tracker
About the Cut-off. I live by it in Warren County. I have been here 25 years. The residents here have ZERO info. on it's status. Everyone I ever talked to would support it, but of course we were never and won't be asked. They could lay track and we would'nt even know it.
  by Lackawanna484
njt4172 wrote:
mcmannors wrote:...on the Scranton to Hoboken train service.
http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news. ... 5898&rfi=6
Who cares how long it will take! We will all probably be dead before construction starts...Either that or trains will become extinct....
Good summary in that article.

I don't think there's any doubt NJ Transit is taking the slow train route on this project. Blow off deadlines, get things done months or years late. Until key legislators adopt the project and demand action, the dates will slip out a bit here, a bit there.

It's important to Pennsy, it's not important to NJ. Yet. Maybe it will be in 2010 or 2020, though.
  by LI Loco
We know it will take a fortune to build out a passenger line to the Poconos and with other priorities there is a good chance the money will never be found.

In the meanwhile, we can test interest in rail service from the Poconos and address other transportation issues in western New Jersey by thinking intermodal.

I propose construction of a multimodal station in the vicinity of Exit 30 on I-80, where the highway and railroad run side by side. It would include a sizable railroad depot, parking for several hundred (maybe even 1,000) cars and a bus terminal. Bus routes would radiate out toward Newton, Port Jervis, the Poconos and Washington (NJ). The line here is double track and capable of fairly high speeds.

At first, passengers could change at Dover for Midtown Direct service. Eventually, NJ Transit would extend electrified service east of Dover and make the new station the western terminus for Midtown Direct. Super express trains, ala California's Baby Bullet, could cut the trip down to an hour. Servicing might be consolidated at Port Morris or possibly a new consolidated facility could be built close to the station. Selling and redeveloping the Dover yard property would help generate funds to pay for the project.

No new rail line required.
Easy access to I-80.
Could move servicing out of inadequate facilities in Dover.
Relieves congestion in Dover.
Possible commercial development in Dover on surplus rail property.
Relieves congestion on I-80 east of Dover.
Better facility than current station in Lake Hopatcong.

  by Lackawanna484
Engineering for this precise location is underway. NJT had an information session a few weeks ago, and construction may begin this summer. Or maybe not.

The plan is to expand the current large bus park and ride at I-80 and Hoffman Blvd in Roxbury to include a new train station and additional parking. Easy off-and-on to I-80, multiple alternatives, including shared rides, etc.
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