• Let NJ Transit's Trains Use PATH Tunnels to NYC

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, Kaback9, ACeInTheHole

  by ThirdRail7
 
I'd pay real money to see a NJT train squeeze through these tunnels. Hell, I'll pony up an Amtrak dual mode to assist. Seriously, I'm getting a blog. My ideas are no more loony than this!

Let NJ Transit's Trains Use PATH Tunnels to NYC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-w-sc ... 18096.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ever since NJ Governor Christie cancelled funding for the Trans-Hudson ARC railroad tunnel to NY Penn Station, mass transit pundits seem to be at a loss about what to do about a Plan B to relieve the rush hour bottleneck in the existing Hudson tunnels.

Fortunately, there is an option staring us right in the face: have NJ Transit (NJT) run some of their scheduled train service through the PATH tunnels to New York City destinations other than Penn Station.

There is already talk of taking PATH away from the Port Authority and putting it under NJ Transit administration. Why not go the next logical step and integrate the PATH and NJT track systems?

The track width of the NJ Transit and PATH tracks is identical, and in fact, PATH already uses NJT tracks in Newark sometimes when trains go to storage or maintenance yards. Once PATH and NJT track systems are fully integrated, select trains from any NJT rail line can go under the Hudson River straight to New York's World Trade Center or Herald Square stations. This would not only relieve NJT rush hour train congestion to NY Penn Station, it would also relieve some of the subway congestion on Manhattan's West Side.

There will be substantial costs and migraine-inducing technical problems to make this all happen, but let's face it: modifying the existing PATH tunnels will be less expensive and take less time to complete than digging a brand new tunnel to Penn Station that would have cost multiple billions of dollars. It would tough, but I believe that all the issues can be solved and the results will greatly benefit the New York/New Jersey commuter community.

And besides, with the Trans-Hudson ARC tunnel dead and buried for the foreseeable future, does anyone out there have a better alternative?
  by srock1028
 
And this my friends is why these people do not work for the railroad...
  by kilroy
 
I didn'rt realize that the new PATH cars have panotgraphs on them now so they could use NJT trackage. Or do they have small diesels to make them dual mode? I know, they have batteries!!

Talk about no fact checking but considering the source of the story, it's no surprise. Why allow yourself to get confused by the facts.
  by OportRailfan
 
Sure, just shove a Comet or ALP through the S curve at Morton St/Christopher St. I'd love to see them try.
  by morris&essex4ever
 
Armchair experts certainly know how to solve problems don't they? :P
  by ExCon90
 
Well, he got one thing right: trying to run NJT through the PATH tunnels would certainly induce migraines.
  by Tadman
 
Reminds me of the post last week in the MNCR forum that suggested using FL9 shells to make bar cars. Uh, what is the weather like on either of those planets? Why not just give everybody a jetpack, it's about as viable...
  by philipmartin
 
kilroy wrote:I didn'rt realize that the new PATH cars have panotgraphs on them now so they could use NJT trackage. Or do they have small diesels to make them dual mode? I know, they have batteries!!
They have that article on "@transit -Transit in the News," frequently a source of good information, on Transit's intranet. I couldn't figure out how to make a comment though.
The H&M and PATH always did use the Pennsy's Jersey City Branch between Bergen Hill and Hudson tower in Harrison, (one end of the old Manhattan Transfer.) At Journal Square the Pennsy tracks went outside around the station, the P&H freight tracks to the north of that, with the Pennsy's Waldo tower controlling the east end of the station and the P&H. The H&M-PATH's WR tower controlled the west side of the station. I worked Waldo for a few years, and the other towers on the line, Hack, Karny, Hudson and Dock. There was a crossover at West Side Avenue, leading to the Marion switch which the PATH took out when it gained control of the Jersey City Branch, and they eliminated the grade crossing there at the same time.
I caused a PATH delay one time years ago, crossing a Burro Crane from one side of Hudson to the other at the start of the morning rush hour. I delayed one train, which delayed the next, which delayed the next and so on. It took them a while to figure out who caused it.
Last edited by philipmartin on Sat May 17, 2014 5:04 am, edited 5 times in total.
  by amtrakhogger
 
ThirdRail7 wrote:I'd pay real money to see a NJT train squeeze through these tunnels. Hell, I'll pony up an Amtrak dual mode to assist. Seriously, I'm getting a blog. My ideas are no more loony than this!

Let NJ Transit's Trains Use PATH Tunnels to NYC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-w-sc ... 18096.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ever since NJ Governor Christie cancelled funding for the Trans-Hudson ARC railroad tunnel to NY Penn Station, mass transit pundits seem to be at a loss about what to do about a Plan B to relieve the rush hour bottleneck in the existing Hudson tunnels.

Fortunately, there is an option staring us right in the face: have NJ Transit (NJT) run some of their scheduled train service through the PATH tunnels to New York City destinations other than Penn Station.



There is already talk of taking PATH away from the Port Authority and putting it under NJ Transit administration. Why not go the next logical step and integrate the PATH and NJT track systems?

The track width of the NJ Transit and PATH tracks is identical, and in fact, PATH already uses NJT tracks in Newark sometimes when trains go to storage or maintenance yards. Once PATH and NJT track systems are fully integrated, select trains from any NJT rail line can go under the Hudson River straight to New York's World Trade Center or Herald Square stations. This would not only relieve NJT rush hour train congestion to NY Penn Station, it would also relieve some of the subway congestion on Manhattan's West Side.

There will be substantial costs and migraine-inducing technical problems to make this all happen, but let's face it: modifying the existing PATH tunnels will be less expensive and take less time to complete than digging a brand new tunnel to Penn Station that would have cost multiple billions of dollars. It would tough, but I believe that all the issues can be solved and the results will greatly benefit the New York/New Jersey commuter community.

And besides, with the Trans-Hudson ARC tunnel dead and buried for the foreseeable future, does anyone out there have a better alternative?
Uh, yeah.
  by Adirondacker
 
Tadman wrote:Reminds me of the post last week in the MNCR forum that suggested using FL9 shells to make bar cars. Uh, what is the weather like on either of those planets? Why not just give everybody a jetpack, it's about as viable...

Get whoever figures out the time-space warper that allows a NJTransit train and PATH train to be in the same place at the same time ( there's a bit of traffic on the PATH system ) just tweak it a bit so that it becomes a teletransporter. We won't need trains any more. Just set the teletransporter to your destination and POOF you are there.
  by Don31
 
It gets curiouser and curiouser.....
  by MattW
 
sullivan1985 wrote:I'm still trying to figure out where this guy got the information that PATH and NJT share tracks on a regular basis. Amtrak must hate when those mystery PATH trains just show up at DOCK.
It's probably PATH's use of Newark station and the track between Harrison and the Kearney Connection area. Without looking at a track map or just flat knowing better, the uninitiated might assume there's some interconnection in there. Wasn't there some back in the H&M days?
  by philipmartin
 
To make this thread intelligible world wide, the PATH is standard gauge, but its cars are narrower and shorter than normal railroad cars. The IRT subway in New York City is the same.
  by cobra30689
 
Trying to fit a set of Comets into the PATH tunnels would be like trying to jam a popsicle stick through a J-trap.....smh