If there was a suburb to suburb route from New Brunswick to Freehold and Lakewood, that would be nice. Maybe have it in the form of diesel light rail and having it stop in Jamesburg would be good. I wouldn't run commuter rail from NYP to Lakewood by way of Monmouth Junction and Jamesburg. That route would take too long, no matter how many stops are made on the NEC. I would probably be more in favor of restoring the ex-CNJ line below Matawan that follows Rt. 9 and then you would be able to serve more of the Rt. 9 communities, especially Freehold. MOM isn't happening for a very long time. NJT's priority is to build those brand new tunnels while replacing the older ones.
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The tunnels and slots are completely a moot point at this time. Theres minimal people going to NYC. We NEED to more than ever focus on intrastate transport as the local roads are busy within the state. Long island is suffering the same issue, but has the rail lines, and needs to look into changing the frequencies and destinations
No good deed goes unpunished.
CJPat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:32 am @JohnfromJersey - I think you maybe in error. The use of the old CNJ from Freehold to Matawan was never really considered viable as the NIMBY's in through Marlboro were considered some of the toughest, most politically connected and expected to put up the most resistance (and they had the extra leverage that the tracks were pulled out 50 yrs (?) ago). The last described "preferred route" was to be through Jamesburg and Monroe along the currently active line (at least as far as Freehold) but Gov Corzine let the whole idea just fizzle out in the face of, in comparison, minor resistance led by the Mayor of Jamesburg. Neither Christie or Murphy have touched it since. There never was any true testing of the waters amongst the populace for resistance. Just a small, but noisy, politically connected group trying hard to recreate Passaic's ouster of the Erie.I believe it was Corzine himself who said he'd favor the Freehold-Matawan connection, and that was the last time we had any high official comment on the plans for the MOM line.
ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:55 pm The tunnels and slots are completely a moot point at this time. Theres minimal people going to NYC. We NEED to more than ever focus on intrastate transport as the local roads are busy within the state. Long island is suffering the same issue, but has the rail lines, and needs to look into changing the frequencies and destinationsProblem is, people in NJ will always go to NYC. NJ Transit (seemingly) refuses to do any expansion of existing infrastructure and intrastate connections due to the fact that it would probably somehow increase passengers to NYC through the already strained tunnels. I do agree that we need to see more River Lines, which would be great for MOM service. We could counter NIMBYs and maybe have multiple termination points, like Lakehurst-South Brunswick-Red Bank instead of just Lakehurst-[Insert of the two mentioned here]. A simple DMU shuttle could be expanded at a later date and could just feed/transfer into existing commuter trains. Maybe a Freehold Mall connection could be possible.
However, as you said, travel into NYC is low but public transit usage in general is low, people are afraid of common areas where COVID could spread. I don't think expanding intrastate transportation would be excluded from that.
From my perspective, the problem has always been trying to make a train do a single run all the way up to NYC ("one-seat ride"). Traffic into NYC has been crammed full and even with the double deck cars, I don't think there are any additional slots available on the NE corridor to add trains to (part of the reason they were trying to build a second station in NYC with the "Tunnel to Nowhere" into Macy's basement).
The best answers that come to me is simply a two-fold plan. Run a shuttle from Lakewood (expand to originate from Toms River) thru Red Bank and up to Long Branch for a platform change. And at the same time, build a shuttle thru Jamesburg to a new station on the NEC at Monmouth Junction that would allow a platform change on the NEC to the North (New Brunswick or further north) or South to Trenton/Philadelphia.
It eliminates the need to try to create new slots on the NEC (or a new flyover to get from the NEC onto the Monmouth branch). The real challenges are building the station on the NEC and making room on existing trains to accomodate the extra people at the platform change locations. Anyone from south of Farmingdale that wants to go north in the direction of NYC would have to use the shuttle thru Red Bank because anything else is going to take too much time. Freehold to NYC would still be a lengthy haul out thru Monmouth Jnctn, but the run to Matawan routing would never happen with all the numerous McMansions that back up to the ROW that were built long after the tracks were ripped up decades ago and have been sitting there since the late 1980s.
I can't imagine freight hauling would be too happy with any of this.
The best answers that come to me is simply a two-fold plan. Run a shuttle from Lakewood (expand to originate from Toms River) thru Red Bank and up to Long Branch for a platform change. And at the same time, build a shuttle thru Jamesburg to a new station on the NEC at Monmouth Junction that would allow a platform change on the NEC to the North (New Brunswick or further north) or South to Trenton/Philadelphia.
It eliminates the need to try to create new slots on the NEC (or a new flyover to get from the NEC onto the Monmouth branch). The real challenges are building the station on the NEC and making room on existing trains to accomodate the extra people at the platform change locations. Anyone from south of Farmingdale that wants to go north in the direction of NYC would have to use the shuttle thru Red Bank because anything else is going to take too much time. Freehold to NYC would still be a lengthy haul out thru Monmouth Jnctn, but the run to Matawan routing would never happen with all the numerous McMansions that back up to the ROW that were built long after the tracks were ripped up decades ago and have been sitting there since the late 1980s.
I can't imagine freight hauling would be too happy with any of this.
CJPat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:45 am From my perspective, the problem has always been trying to make a train do a single run all the way up to NYC ("one-seat ride"). Traffic into NYC has been crammed full and even with the double deck cars, I don't think there are any additional slots available on the NE corridor to add trains to (part of the reason they were trying to build a second station in NYC with the "Tunnel to Nowhere" into Macy's basement).I think freight would be ok with it, it's already pretty infrequent on these lines (that would probably change with government investment improving the infrastructure), and seems to run during the day or night, aka not during peak rush hour.
The best answers that come to me is simply a two-fold plan. Run a shuttle from Lakewood (expand to originate from Toms River) thru Red Bank and up to Long Branch for a platform change. And at the same time, build a shuttle thru Jamesburg to a new station on the NEC at Monmouth Junction that would allow a platform change on the NEC to the North (New Brunswick or further north) or South to Trenton/Philadelphia.
It eliminates the need to try to create new slots on the NEC (or a new flyover to get from the NEC onto the Monmouth branch). The real challenges are building the station on the NEC and making room on existing trains to accomodate the extra people at the platform change locations. Anyone from south of Farmingdale that wants to go north in the direction of NYC would have to use the shuttle thru Red Bank because anything else is going to take too much time. Freehold to NYC would still be a lengthy haul out thru Monmouth Jnctn, but the run to Matawan routing would never happen with all the numerous McMansions that back up to the ROW that were built long after the tracks were ripped up decades ago and have been sitting there since the late 1980s.
I can't imagine freight hauling would be too happy with any of this.
I think if a light DMU option is done, it should be based on whether the destination is North or South. For instance, if you're in Eatontown, Freehold, Lakewood etc. and you want to go South to Philly, you would have to take hit the wye at Farmingdale, go West, and then either go to Trenton or Princeton for transfer; there could even be an option for the DMUs to go directly to Philly since I'd imagine they could handle extra trains coming in better than NYP. For North, even if you were in Jamesburg, you'd have to go up to Farmingdale, and then go to Matawan/Red Bank for transfer; not sure if heading down south to Long Branch would be a good idea, as that would be counter productive.
The point I was intending by recommending a station at Monouth Jctn was that travelers could immediately access an NEC train at that point instead of trying to negotiate it's way onto the Corridor (removes traffic issues). It also opens up New Brunswick, and Edison as destinations for someone originating from anywhere from Toms River/Lakehurst/Lakewood on west as well as making it easier to head south to Trenton, Phila, Baltimore, or Washington DC. It has been discussed several times thru the MOM thread that New Brunswick keeps getting ignored as a possible desired destination from Monmouth and Ocean County. Not everyone is headed to NYC.
No doubt Rt. 18 in New Brunswick could use some relief. Even when they widened it, DEVCO estimated that by creating 7500 jobs, the new capacity of Rt. 18 would be immediately saturated - and it is. New Brunswick IS a destination - Rutgers, J&J, the county offices and courts - lots of small businesses catering to them and the employees that serve them. When school is in session on campus, the bus system is dreadfully overloaded with students running from campus to campus for their next class. Some kind of LRV circulating between Cook/Douglass, into downtown near the station and on out College Ave, and across the river to Piscataway and using the old Reading ROW back of Livingston campus to come up cross-platform at the Edison NEC station. We figured out in urban planning class that such a system could displace 25 bus trips and about 900-1200 cars per hour on that route alone. Same kind of vehicle the River Line uses, except it didn't exist in the '80's.
We also looked at a park and ride on US 1 at the Squibb property and using the abandoned Raritan River RR ROW as a spur to join that circulator.
We also looked at a park and ride on US 1 at the Squibb property and using the abandoned Raritan River RR ROW as a spur to join that circulator.
"Sewaren, Sewaren. Next stop is Barber, then Perth Amboy."
E-44 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:08 pm No doubt Rt. 18 in New Brunswick could use some relief. Even when they widened it, DEVCO estimated that by creating 7500 jobs, the new capacity of Rt. 18 would be immediately saturated - and it is. New Brunswick IS a destination - Rutgers, J&J, the county offices and courts - lots of small businesses catering to them and the employees that serve them. When school is in session on campus, the bus system is dreadfully overloaded with students running from campus to campus for their next class. Some kind of LRV circulating between Cook/Douglass, into downtown near the station and on out College Ave, and across the river to Piscataway and using the old Reading ROW back of Livingston campus to come up cross-platform at the Edison NEC station. We figured out in urban planning class that such a system could displace 25 bus trips and about 900-1200 cars per hour on that route alone. Same kind of vehicle the River Line uses, except it didn't exist in the '80's.You have any maps/plans that related to that urban planning class project you mentioned? Sounds pretty cool, I did not know there was a ROW behind Livingston campus
We also looked at a park and ride on US 1 at the Squibb property and using the abandoned Raritan River RR ROW as a spur to join that circulator.
@E-44 - I am surprised you advocated the Reading ROW (I thought it was the LV, but that's my error - or did all 3 have access?) and not the Pennsy's own ROW that came off the Corridor and into Camp Kilmer (now Livingston Campus). I think you can just make out part of it in Highland park and in Kilmer directly.
All three had access. The Reading shared access with the LV coming down from Bound Brook. If you look closely at the remaining siding paralleling track 4, you can see it wasn’t PRR style trackwork and follow the curve northward toward the LV line. Right after creation of Conrail, a Reading SW1200 (with black CR patch) drilled the industrial sidings and the crew would sign up as the loco idled across the NEC track 4 at what was laughingly called the Edison station - no shelter, no paved parking - just a mud puddle. On really nasty days, earlybird commuters were invited into the spacious cab. I started bringing donuts and coffee and they’d monitor the progress of my eastbound local to give me time to scamper across to track 1.
That spur track behind the Edison westbound platform would make an excellent cross-platform transfer point. And there’s still plenty of room for a street-running LRV to run from there to Livingston, Busch, the stadium and over the river on a dedicated bridge to connect with a College Ave. line.
That spur track behind the Edison westbound platform would make an excellent cross-platform transfer point. And there’s still plenty of room for a street-running LRV to run from there to Livingston, Busch, the stadium and over the river on a dedicated bridge to connect with a College Ave. line.
"Sewaren, Sewaren. Next stop is Barber, then Perth Amboy."
I think a New Brunswick LRT network makes a lot of sense.
I feel that public transit options for non-NYC-bound traffic in Central NJ (and NJ overall) are sorely lacking. NJ is dense enough that almost all rail ROW have potential for transit and buses need to serve more effectively to flesh out the remainder.
The area roughly corresponding to northern Middlesex and eastern Somerset Counties is regularly heavily congested with traffic on the highways and traffic on the main local roads attempting to bypass it. Apart from the main flow of traffic heading toward NYC, there are many, many industries and commercial offices that collectively generate massive amounts of traffic. The problem is no public transit serves these areas in a useful way so everyone just drives.
I-287 is so reliably bad that people would always divert to local roads to try to get around it, but these would also quickly become congested on a regular basis. Basically, if you drew a quadrilateral connecting Bridgwater, New Brunswick, Woodbridge Twp, and South Plainfield, you'd find that most of the main roads through there would become clogged, especially in the afternoon rush.
I feel that public transit options for non-NYC-bound traffic in Central NJ (and NJ overall) are sorely lacking. NJ is dense enough that almost all rail ROW have potential for transit and buses need to serve more effectively to flesh out the remainder.
The area roughly corresponding to northern Middlesex and eastern Somerset Counties is regularly heavily congested with traffic on the highways and traffic on the main local roads attempting to bypass it. Apart from the main flow of traffic heading toward NYC, there are many, many industries and commercial offices that collectively generate massive amounts of traffic. The problem is no public transit serves these areas in a useful way so everyone just drives.
I-287 is so reliably bad that people would always divert to local roads to try to get around it, but these would also quickly become congested on a regular basis. Basically, if you drew a quadrilateral connecting Bridgwater, New Brunswick, Woodbridge Twp, and South Plainfield, you'd find that most of the main roads through there would become clogged, especially in the afternoon rush.
You've got the underused former CNJ spur that runs to the quarry in Bridgewater that could be extended to serve the growing corporate base there. The old LV Perth Amboy branch ROW from Metuchen to South Plainfield could be used to reach an RVL transfer point for travel in either direction.
There's the totally underused West Trenton/former Reading line that could be connected to the River Line via the old Bel Del ROW. The LRVs could run from Trenton, serving Hunterdon and Somerset to a cross-platform transfer to the RVL in Bound Brook. They currently share ROW with CSAO on the existing River Line (old C&A) with "temporal separation" now, so the heavy rail (FRA) versus LRV (FTA) safety argument has been disproven.
There's the totally underused West Trenton/former Reading line that could be connected to the River Line via the old Bel Del ROW. The LRVs could run from Trenton, serving Hunterdon and Somerset to a cross-platform transfer to the RVL in Bound Brook. They currently share ROW with CSAO on the existing River Line (old C&A) with "temporal separation" now, so the heavy rail (FRA) versus LRV (FTA) safety argument has been disproven.
"Sewaren, Sewaren. Next stop is Barber, then Perth Amboy."
West Trenton is a key north-south CSX main line.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
Does anyone have any maps/pictures of the ROW being mentioned around New Brunswick? When I was there at Rutgers, there wasn't any other rail lines I saw besides the NEC.