MOM Rail Service

[njtmnrrbuff]

I really hope that service levels return to normal when the COVID-19 conditions end. That's true that after this COVID-19 ends, there may be companies that permanently opt their employees to work from home and that may affect commuting patterns. Hopefully it doesn't too much as many jobs require people to work in the offices. I'm sure that there are many people living in the MOM proposed communities that would be very happy to work from home as it's a long commute to the city from many of those towns. Lakewood is one of them.

[JohnFromJersey]

All of you do nothing but think just like NJT and the state do. NYC access. Lets forget that. Theres a lot of other places people commute to in NJ that are not NYC. Something to relieve traffic for those commuting on Rt18, anything to help keep people from driving up over the driscoll bridge to 287. There is so much traffic in this area in general and its not all people going to the city, its often people just trying to get around to do their every day stuff in between those who work in the very populated center of NJ and north jersey. I think if some relief was given in the form of some kind of local commuter system or even interurban it would greatly reduce the need for some to even own cars, or drive them as often as they do.

I dont think there will ever be a need for anything to go NYC to AC, other than the possibility of something to provide beach/shore access to take drivers off the parkway. This would be more of a north to south situation than a NYC to AC situation though.

For one thing, the majority of the NJ population and service are in North Jersey and in general, north of 195. So, yes it's in the state's best interest to make sure North Jersey, which is also very reliant on NYC, is running. There is money that should be spent south of 195, but the idea that all of South Jersey is going to Atlantic CIty is insane and incorrect. NJ Transit should be focusing that market through Philadelphia, not NYC. Atlantic City needs to focus on being a tech hub east of Philadelphia, since there is land and opportunity along the corridor. If the original point was a service from NYC to Atlantic City that serves NJ communities, then that what was what I focused on in my argument.

NYC has Lakewood/Lakehurst and Freehold in need of service, along with others in New Jersey, but for Philadelphia, the focus should be more access to shore communities. Unfortunately, that's limited over the years. Many railroads in South Jersey are long history and unusuable, so it becomes working with what we can.

AC will never be a tech business hub as long as things in NJ keep going the way they're going. NJ is very hostile to new businesses. A good example would be how the Southern Secondary has had a lot of their customers screwed over by Conrail.

South Jersey isn't as bad price wise, but combine NJ's reputation for being expensive (mostly up North) with its taxes and regulations, a lot of people are simply turned off. AC would make a great tech hub, but the NJ government would need to stop the malarky. AC could be the LA/SanFran of the East (business and beaches that aren't polluted, like many NYC ones), but until NJ gov loosens up a bit, we won't see anything.

If the Winslow-Matawan/RB connect was revived, THAT could bring more Philly people to the Shore. It would allow Philly to have rail access to more than just AC, but due to grade crossings and a weird curve from the connecting Coastline station, the trip might be longer than optimal. Doing that would cost quite a lot, and members of other threads seem to think that reviving the full old Southern Secondary would be pointless.

If only Farmingdale still had the diamond to Manasquan...

[JohnFromJersey]

Reading the ideas presented in this thread, I'm of the version with a shuttle at Red Bank. As it was stated, there would be no problem of storage of any more trains at NY Penn. Going this route, I would include Lakewood, Lakehurst, and Toms River. Ciba-Geigy has (had?) a yard and enough land to build a park & ride terminal there. Toms River and that area needs better mass transit than just Route 9 buses. And maybe a station could be established at Collingwood flea market or at the old McDowell asphalt plant on Asbury Road, a midway stop between Lakewood and Red Bank. (We can dream)

The DMU is our best option, Gateway or not. However, the tracks are pretty rough, so the ride would probably be unpleasant and slow.

[lensovet]

South Jersey isn't as bad price wise, but combine NJ's reputation for being expensive (mostly up North) with its taxes and regulations, a lot of people are simply turned off. AC would make a great tech hub, but the NJ government would need to stop the malarky. AC could be the LA/SanFran of the East (business and beaches that aren't polluted, like many NYC ones), but until NJ gov loosens up a bit, we won't see anything.

Ah yes because California is a free for all with no regulations at all. And I hear it's really cheap too!

Listening to New Jerseyans complain about high taxes is cute. Do the math on how high your taxes would be if a tear-down house with a tiny lot cost $1 mil in your neighborhood. No, that's not a typo.

[JohnFromJersey]

South Jersey isn't as bad price wise, but combine NJ's reputation for being expensive (mostly up North) with its taxes and regulations, a lot of people are simply turned off. AC would make a great tech hub, but the NJ government would need to stop the malarky. AC could be the LA/SanFran of the East (business and beaches that aren't polluted, like many NYC ones), but until NJ gov loosens up a bit, we won't see anything.

Ah yes because California is a free for all with no regulations at all. And I hear it's really cheap too!

Listening to New Jerseyans complain about high taxes is cute. Do the math on how high your taxes would be if a tear-down house with a tiny lot cost $1 mil in your neighborhood. No, that's not a typo.

I mean, quite a lot of tech businesses (and people in general) are moving out of Cali; my friend got an internship next summer down in Texas at a tech firm, and told me that a lot of people and tech firms are moving there (Austin especially). Nevada is apparently having the same thing too.

I lived in Florida for a year, and every other person I met down there was from NJ or NY, trying to start their own business of some sort down there too. NJ has some pretty stiff competition for attracting people (and keeping them in). Though the summers and shore here are like no where else, I'll give NJ that.

[WashingtonPark]

NJ is losing population at a higher rate than any other state with residents moving to Florida and Upper New England states. Nobody moves to California for tax or regulation relief.

[JohnFromJersey]

NJ is losing population at a higher rate than any other state with residents moving to Florida and Upper New England states. Nobody moves to California for tax or regulation relief.

Exactly. California and NJ are still running on the fumes from the 90s booms. Both need to re-calibrate. As long as NJ keeps going the way its going, especially with more people (and businesses) moving out than in, the MOM line will never materialize.

[R&DB]

The influx of new residents escaping NYC (and environs) due to COVID-19 may affect the possible future of MOM. On the other hand, many people now work at home and don't commute. The original intent (back in the 80s) of MOM was to relieve traffic on the US-9 corridor. I haven't been on 9 during rush hours this year, but I'll bet the traffic is lower that previously.
The need for MOM may need to be re-thought. Perhaps something more akin to the River Line than the North Jersey Coast Line.

[GSC]

Traffic has returned mostly to pre-Covid levels as more people hit the roads for whatever reasons. Traffic is back. It was nice for those first few weeks when no one was on the roads.

[ApproachMedium]

Traffic on highways like 18 and 9 is just as bad. The hourly periods of it may be different, but its back to bad

[Matt Johnson]

They should rename MOM rail service DAD rail service, for Dead As a Doornail. Badum ching! I'm here all night folks.

[E-44]

Call it "Death by NIMBY."

As the former late mayor of South Brunswick used to say "We'll just run buses up and down US 1 all day."

Or the former mayor of Jamesburg: "Those trains will block cross-street access for up to 4 minutes. What happens if an ambulance needs to get by?"

Or the Realtor who promised her Ridge Road mini-mansion buyer that "trains don't run here anymore."

Ocean County? "YES!"
Monmouth County? "MAYBE"
Middlesex County? "HELL NO!"

So there was never really a MOM. It was "-OM?"

[JohnFromJersey]

Call it "Death by NIMBY."

As the former late mayor of South Brunswick used to say "We'll just run buses up and down US 1 all day."

Or the former mayor of Jamesburg: "Those trains will block cross-street access for up to 4 minutes. What happens if an ambulance needs to get by?"

Or the Realtor who promised her Ridge Road mini-mansion buyer that "trains don't run here anymore."

Ocean County? "YES!"
Monmouth County? "MAYBE"
Middlesex County? "HELL NO!"

So there was never really a MOM. It was "-OM?"

I believe that the MOM line last agreed on would go from Lakehurst up to Farmingdale, head west to Freehold, head north from there to Matawan via the Henry Hudson trail through Marlboro.

However a lot of the Marlboro residents who moved into the new mcmansions that line the place and haven't been in the town more than 10 years fought tooth and nail to stop it.

Plus the greenies wouldn't like losing a rail trail.

[CJPat]

@JohnfromJersey - I think you maybe in error. The use of the old CNJ from Freehold to Matawan was never really considered viable as the NIMBY's in through Marlboro were considered some of the toughest, most politically connected and expected to put up the most resistance (and they had the extra leverage that the tracks were pulled out 50 yrs (?) ago). The last described "preferred route" was to be through Jamesburg and Monroe along the currently active line (at least as far as Freehold) but Gov Corzine let the whole idea just fizzle out in the face of, in comparison, minor resistance led by the Mayor of Jamesburg. Neither Christie or Murphy have touched it since. There never was any true testing of the waters amongst the populace for resistance. Just a small, but noisy, politically connected group trying hard to recreate Passaic's ouster of the Erie.

[E-44]

The CNJ route was single-tracked and the ROW was so narrow that even passing siding construction was questionable. Of all the NIMBYs, I can appreciate the Jamesburg argument as the route would run in the middle of the main street of town (also a single track segment that could not be widened) that is mixed commercial and residential.

The only way the "real" MOM route could be built would be to turn west well south of Jamesburg, roughly along Rt. 33 to an area near Princeton Jct. There'd need to be a ton of money spent for land acquisition through the farm areas, the preserves and opposition from Green Acres folks and the NIMBYs in built-up areas in West Windsor.

But until we get the tunnels and the slots, we might as well be wishing for a monorail or a maglev down the Turnpike median.