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Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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 #87402  by JayMan
 
Here is the last version of my fantasy map, using this format, as I am looking into an entirely new format. This version is be to featured in a New York Times article about fantasy mapping due to in this Sunday's paper.

Image
Last edited by JayMan on Sun May 01, 2005 11:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

 #87736  by LI Loco
 
Awesome! Well thought out.

Now repeat after me:

If I had $30 billion dollars...

I'd buy lots of trains.

If I had $30 billion dollars...

The subway would go much further.


You get the idea.

 #87750  by JayMan
 
Thanks! And yep, I get the message! :-) Unfortunately, that was my sentiment exactly. :(

Hey, but getting some of all this built would be better than none, yes?
 #88870  by JayMan
 
Hi, I wanted to update everyone on the status of that article. I spoke with Mr. Mindlin and he said that because the article discusses fantasy mapping and doesn't deal with current events, it may be shelved for awhile. :( He did tell me that a few other fantasy mappers will be featured in the article. But he said that likely it would not be out next Sunday but to keep an eye out for it.

 #90384  by NJTRailfan
 
I love the ideas for the 2nd Ave Subway and the 7 line extension. I have a feelign that when the Olympics are here in 2012 one of these projects will come on line. hopefully NJT will take notice and try to do the same. I have more faith in the MTA to atleast get one r better yet both up and running. Hopefully NJT will atleast get MOM, cutoff, W Trenton or the H tunnels on line by then. Atleast all NJT light rail/subway projects will be completed by then.

 #90542  by JayMan
 
Thank you! Bad news for any subway expansion though. Gov. Pataki has approved a budget for the MTA that falls far short of what they need to get these projects off the ground (to say nothing of extensions beyond that such as the SAS branches in the outer boroughs featured here).

http://www.straphangers.org/ubb/ultimat ... 3;t=007756

It's sad because as I posted earlier NYC transit system has limited room for growth as is, and the City's economic growth will be limited as existing lines reach over capacity.

 #102814  by Pete
 
Why did you eliminate the Aqueduct stop?

 #102833  by AMoreira81
 
Not bad. However, I do not think you can put the 2d. Avenue Subway on the BMT southern division---no place to put the tunnel.

 #102841  by JayMan
 
Pete wrote:Why did you eliminate the Aqueduct stop?
You mean on the Rockaway Line? That one is still there.

 #102848  by JayMan
 
AMoreira81 wrote:Not bad. However, I do not think you can put the 2d. Avenue Subway on the BMT southern division---no place to put the tunnel.
Thanks. Should be, if you do it like this:

http://img104.exs.cx/img104/4159/bigbklynhtssas2sa.gif

 #103067  by GP38
 
Very nice, only change I would have made is had the V train go to Metropolitan Ave via the Broadway El, instead of terminating at 2nd Ave.

 #122663  by JayMan
 
Actually, it was about time I updated my map to the right link... :-)
 #122720  by Benjamin
 
Hi! I didn't know about this forum until just moments ago when I read about it in the "New York Times" -- congratulations on the coverage!

I'd like to share my enthusiasm for a fantasy route that has always interested me -- in the hope that maybe some others with more knowledge and expertise will also find it interesting and consider it for their own future fantasy maps. (Jayman, I hope I have not broken any rules of etiquette by posting this in your thread.)

One thing I've noticed, is that whenever transit enthusiasts talk about additional transit lines, they always seem to think in terms of what might be called, "more of the same" -- more lines into and out of Manhattan, or more spokes on the wheel, so to speak.

However, as a lifelong New Yorker who was originally from the "outer boroughs," one thing that has always bugged me about NYC mass transit is the fact that you basically have to travel into Manhattan if you want to go from one borough to another. (Practially speaking, I believe this is one of the reasons that various outer borough "hubs" have never really taken off the way they might have if they hadn't joined NYC in 1898.)

So I hope people will enjoy hearing about (and consider fleshing out) the idea of a fantasy transit "beltway" that would connect the various outer borough "hubs" (and "hubs" to be). I'm thinking of a double track (each line in the opposite direction) monorail line that would be light enough to travel over bridges and also allow you to transfer to existing spokes in the wheel (the way the No. 7 allows you to transfer to the "E" or "F" train). (Perhaps in some areas of the city where there are already "els," an underground monorail would be a better interface.)

Roughly speaking, here is how the route would go.

1) Across the Bronx (above or beside the Cross Bronx Expressway?) and over the Whitestone Bridge;

2) Across Queens (crossing over and connecting to the No. 7 and the Hillside Ave. IND line) and then over to Brooklyn.

3) Across Brooklyn (crossing over the various lines radiating out from downtown Brooklyn) and then across the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge

4) Across Staten Island (crossing over the SIRT) and across the Goethals Bridge

5) Then northward through Hudson County and back over the George Washington Bridge.

As part of this fantasy transit "beltway," the No. 7 would go under the Hudson and link up the New Jersey portion of the beltway. So this line with link up with the Beltway at two points: Flushing and somewhere in New Jersey.

I realize due to political and economic considerations, that this is really a wildly impractical idea. But since people are talking about fantasies -- why not think out of the box?

What I like about this fantasy is that all of a sudden it makes the spokes going into and out of Manhattan less of a "one-way" street (e.g., into Manahttan during the morning rush) and more of a two-way street (into and out of Manhattan during the morning rush). With a transit beltway, a business in, say downtown Jamaica, would better be able to attract customers and employees from the Bronx, Brooklyn and Staten Island. So people in Manhattan would then too have a reason to take the subway out to Jamaica during the morning rush hour -- making the entire subway system better utilized. (Instead of all the users traveling one way into Manhattan, you have users more evenly distributed -- giving you, in effect, two transit systems for the price of one.)

(P.S. -- Many of you may already know about this, but there is a great monorail enthusiast site that addresses many of what it feels are the myths about monorails. I'm suggesting monorails in this fantasy because they appear to be lighter and cheaper to build. Plus they don't seem to make the noise that elevated trains do -- my biggest complaint about the "el" that used to run along Jamaica Ave. when I was a kid.)

 #122739  by JayMan
 
Welcome Benjamin! No you didn't break any etiquette rules but rather did the right thing by keeping this in the same thread. It's good to see that the article is getting attention already. :-)

Trust me, I have had a grand vision similar to what you've just described. Other fantasy mappers may have greater tolerance since their map is supposed to be "fantasy" after all, but I'd like to think mine is semi-fantasy. It's supposed to represent transit developments that are feasible. However the fantasy comes in because it seems like any expansion to the subway is a fantasy; the Second Avenue Subway can't even get off the ground. While a massive "crosstown" line would be great, the problem is would be more expensive that any transit line in history. Such a line would likely cost many tens of billions of dollars to build, and the ridership it serves simply would not justify such an expense, I'm afraid. For the most part, subways have been regarded as a way to get people from residential areas to the central business district. Considering the expense involved, it is easy to see why.