Triboro RX Proposal

[Jeff Smith]

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ine-subway

Not likely, since it's the Manhattan Boro Prez, but nice to see a mention of a decade old proposal:

“The X Line would connect all but three subway lines in the city and join Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx, which no other line does today,” said Stringer, speaking to a room full of New York establishment types at a breakfast hosted by the Association for a Better New York.

“Here’s why it’s not a pipe dream: The line is built entirely along existing rights of way,” said Stringer. “That means no tunneling, which is the biggest hurdle in this day and age to building new subways.”

...

There are, for the most part, existing freight tracks running from Bay Ridge up through Queens and across the Hell Gate Bridge into the Bronx. Freight traffic on those rails is light. And there is, theoretically, enough space alongside them to accommodate some form of commuter rail.

“It doesn’t have to be a subway type car,” said Zupan. “It could be somewhat smaller, but still operate as a train with multiple cars.”

The train would run above ground and intersect with nearly every subway line in the city, avoiding Manhattan altogether.

I think the FRA question is huge, especially where the Hell Gate Bridge is concerned.

[Paulus Magnus]

Can't imagine the FRA's space requirement would be much of an issue, Metrolink and Amtrak happily run right next to BNSF and UP.

[DogBert]

The media has latched onto the idea of the Triboro RX route again. There's been a few stories, here's an example:
http://gothamist.com/2013/08/21/the_dre ... _conne.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently some of the mayoral candidates have commented on it, all of them making it sound like something that could actually be done easily (as if it hasn't taken us nearly 100 years to eve have part of SAS open).

This is the only write up I've seen so far on how not-at-all simple or cheap the idea would be to pull off...
http://ltvsquad.com/2013/08/22/the-trib ... -disaster/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jeff Smith]

An idea which won't die (not saying this is bad): RPA News

NYT: RPA's Triboro Proposal

What if there were a way to pay for desperately needed repairs to New York’s subways, while also funding big ideas and new lines to create additional capacity to the aging, overwhelmed system? A New York Times editorial over the weekend backed a bill before the New York State Assembly that would use congestion pricing and other means to raise revenue for the MTA’s capital plan and future projects. One idea that should be among those future projects, the NYT said, is the Triboro Line, a RPA proposal that would provide sorely needed transit access for residents outside Manhattan.
...

More: NY Times Opinion

How to Save New York’s Overwhelmed Subways
...
Move NY would also give the M.T.A. the money and authority to establish new subway lines. One of the most promising proposals is for a line to connect the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn over existing rail tracks, parts of which are owned by CSX, Amtrak and the M.T.A. The 24-mile line, which supporters call the Triboro Rx, would stretch from Co-Op City in the northern Bronx to Bay Ridge in Brooklyn, passing through Astoria, Jackson Heights, East New York and Midwood.

The Triboro Rx would serve many fast-growing neighborhoods, some of which have limited or no train service now. The Regional Plan Association, which first proposed the line in the 1990s, estimates it could cost $1 billion to $2 billion, serve an initial daily ridership of 100,000 people and help reduce the time it takes to get from the Bronx to Brooklyn by as much as half an hour, a big help to many lower-income residents. Assuming the line reduces travel times by 10 to 15 minutes for the average rider, that would add up to 65 hours a year per person, the association estimates.
...

[Ryand-Smith]

Could DMUs like the Nippon DMU run on this line since the Nippon ones are FRA compliant?

[rr503]

How will this and cross harbor (if built) coexist? Who will operate it? LIRR? NYCTA?

[Jeff Smith]

For the consist length in NYC, DMU's would not be appropriate. Although it's not determined yet, it may likely be a subway, which does not require FRA equipment.

As for who, it would be an MTA agency. What would it have to do with Cross Harbor? That would be heavy freight rail; PA would have jurisdiction on the tunnel (it's actually the original reason for the PA's existence).

[rr503]

Yes, but in places, the ROW will not be wide enough for both CH and RX. I was just wondering if this was addressed anywhere. As you seem to be suggesting that this will not be heavy rail, I think NYCTA is a safe bet for operator (and the already-extant N/L lines would be usable for part of it)

[Backshophoss]

Figure on CSX making life "interesting" if any of the route includes Hellgate bridge ROW as part of it.
They could claim it's a freight clearance route for "High,Wide,and Heavy" loads to the island.

[rr503]

Yup! And hey, they wouldn't be lying; LIPA sometimes gets transformers at Hicksville. And P&W/NY&A can throw a fit about the obstruction of freight transportation to a truck-dependant region, Amtrak can scream about how its NEC is sacred and the local NIMBYs can grind their axes.
I'm already stocking up on popcorn

[Ryand-Smith]

Figure on CSX making life "interesting" if any of the route includes Hellgate bridge ROW as part of it.
They could claim it's a freight clearance route for "High,Wide,and Heavy" loads to the island.

I thought there was an unused track over hells gate bridge that could be used to not block existing services?

[Jeff Smith]

The Hell Gate does present an interesting issue. There are currently three tracks; two electrified for the NEC, and one freight. Assuming that the RPA proposal needs two tracks, and the need for separation from the NEC, what happens to the freight track? There's going to be quite a bit of shared ROW, along the Bay Ridge branch and the Hell Gate.

[Backshophoss]

The current freight track(aka,the Bay Ridge Secondary)is the loser,the need to fence off the NYCTA ROW will "crowd out"
that trackage. Since Amtrak and CSX barely get along currently doesn't help,both will prod the state and city for needed track
upgrades and Control Points to allow freight on 1 of the Mainlines,and restricted "High,Wide,and Heavy" clearances.
Triboro RX might be better off tunneling or designing a structure that could be attached to Hellgate bridge.

[rr503]

Not only that, but in the South Brooklyn cut and from FP to the beginning of the hell gate, the ROW is waaaaaay to small for a new set of tracks. Add to that freight customer sidings and you have mayhem.
Oh, and how will they get this through fresh pond itself?

[Jeff Smith]

Did a little more digging: http://library.rpa.org/interactive/the-triboro/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So while we're assuming a transit operation, it appears RPA is looking at shared usage, which would imply FRA style commuter trains. Thus, DMU's might actually work. Anyway, this is a LONG way off. NY can't even get the SAS finished, then there's Gateway, etc.