MTA AND ADA COMPLIANCE (American Disabilities Act, Handicap Access)

[Love Train]

Some photos taken during the renovation showed elevators being installed. Are they finished and open to the public now that the renovation is complete?

[Kurt]

I was just up there recently, and the elevators looked like they were not yet in service, still boarded up at ground level.

[railfan365]

I'm all in favour of making our transport facilties fully accessible. Meanwhile, NYC TA seems to be taking forever to reach that goal. Wheelchair lift equipped buses started to appear in 1981 - but instead of retrofitting the older buses, at least the ones that were extensively overhauled in 1984 - it took until 1994 for the bus fleet to be fully accesible, and that with the bothersome placement of the chairlift in the rear exit door on many buses.
Meanwhile, while there are accesible subway statons, including some of the major ones, the list is quite short and growing extremely slowly. Can anyone tell me how long an exempion the TA got from full ADA compliance while they move in slow motion on this?

[Kamen Rider]

There is no expemption, The MTA is operating within the graps of the rules. A facilty may remain non ADA if it was opened prior to the passing of the act and if it has not receved a major renovation since. When a station is renovated, ADA equpment is installed.

[M&Eman]

As Mayor Bloomberg put it, "it would be more cost effective to maintain a private bus fleet to take disabled passengers wherever they wanted in the city 24/7 than make the Subway ADA Accessible." The Subway is big and old, a bad combination for conforming to the ADA mandate. There are numerous stations, the vast majority either underground or high up on an el, all which have no provisions for elevators built into them. The NY Subway will never be fully ADA accessible, I guarantee.

[neroden]

So, for most old urban rail systems, they have some sort of page up announcing which stations they're currently installing elevators/ramps/etc. in, which ones they're planning to retrofit next, et cetera. Or they have press releases announcing them each time they do it.

NYC Subway.... well, every now and then a new handicapped-access symbol appears on the map, but it's like they're trying to hide their projects. Has anyone found a list of the projects which are "in the works" or some way to keep track of them?

[Kamen Rider]

due to the age, size and status of the subway system, ADA guidelines are relaxed. ADA is normaly added to major stations when that station is renovated in general. For example, 59th street-Columbus Cirlce will be ADA compliant in a few weeks, as part of the station's overal work

[neroden]

So, in other words, "no". Information is not available.

After all, NYC Subway doesn't have a list of stations getting major renovations.

EDIT:
I will also note that they do not have their "Key Stations" list posted.

Every old system has the same problems, and every system but New York has been a lot better at providing "scheduled improvements" information.

[neroden]

There is no expemption, The MTA is operating within the graps of the rules. A facilty may remain non ADA if it was opened prior to the passing of the act and if it has not receved a major renovation since. When a station is renovated, ADA equpment is installed.

Not actually true. The subway system has to convert a list of "key stations", which are agreed with the federal government and various parities to old lawsuits, by a date certain. The *rest* of the stations have the "major renovation" rules.

The "key stations" list appears to be *very* hard to find, and the list of stations getting renovations is non-existent.

[neroden]

As Mayor Bloomberg put it, "it would be more cost effective to maintain a private bus fleet to take disabled passengers wherever they wanted in the city 24/7 than make the Subway ADA Accessible."

He was just plain wrong, of course. As of now they *have to* maintain a private bus fleet to take disabled passengers whereever they want in the city 24/7 (paratransit).

It's *VERY EXPENSIVE* and it's a continuous yearly cost. It has to be upgraded from its existing very expensive state because it's not meeting legal minimums (not showing up on time, et cetera). Furthermore, it still provides substandard service because it gets caught in traffic.

Chicago, London, et cetera, all decided that minimizing the number of places where paratransit needed to be available, by making whole sections of line ADA-accessible, was key to keeping costs down.

[Kamen Rider]

There is no expemption, The MTA is operating within the graps of the rules. A facilty may remain non ADA if it was opened prior to the passing of the act and if it has not receved a major renovation since. When a station is renovated, ADA equpment is installed.

Not actually true. The subway system has to convert a list of "key stations", which are agreed with the federal government and various parities to old lawsuits, by a date certain. The *rest* of the stations have the "major renovation" rules.

The "key stations" list appears to be *very* hard to find, and the list of stations getting renovations is non-existent.

it's hard to find because it doesn't exist. and operating Acess-A-ride is cheaper then building thousands of elivators all over the place.

[fishmech]

Not just cheaper than building the elevators, but also cheaper than operating them, keeping them cleaned, etc.

Best case scenario would be MTA implementing those wheelchair lifts that attach to special handrails and act like open elevators that go diagonally up and down existing stairs. And that'd only be in a few stations.

[Kamen Rider]

Best case scenario would be MTA implementing those wheelchair lifts that attach to special handrails and act like open elevators that go diagonally up and down existing stairs. And that'd only be in a few stations.

People also don't use Access-a-ride buses as bathrooms, and they don't smell like crayons, and if they breakdown, under normal surcumstances, the fire department need not be called.

[neroden]

it's hard to find because it doesn't exist. and operating Acess-A-ride is cheaper then building thousands of elivators all over the place.

You apparently know nothing about transit law. Yes, there is a key stations list. Stop spreading lies.

EDIT: here's a useful reference.
http://www.transitblogger.com/system-co" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... report.php

Note the following line:

• NYCT, out of 468 stations, has 67 key subway stations which have been made accessible. Another 33 must be made accessible by 2020.

Emphasis mine.

[Kamen Rider]

That's meaningless. Your the one who knows nothing. They don't acutaly have to do anything, it's by thier willingess this gets. it's an AGREEMENT. they can break it if they feel like it.

besides, the ADA is unconstitional.