RPA Transit Blueprint for Urban Core

[Jeff Smith]

RPA PDF

If the link doesn't work, just go to http://www.rpa.org

Interesting stuff in here:

-recommendations for extensions of the SAS
-conversion of an LIRR branch to mass transit
-enhancing service to outlying/under-served areas
-enhancing service to the "south central" Bronx and Co-op City

I found the proposals for the Bronx most interesting (not surprising, given my connection to the area in the 60's/70's). One proposal involves a resurrection of Third Ave service in the Bronx, and some advocates mass-transit along either the Harlem Branch of the NH/Amtrak, or extension or diversion of the Dyre Ave south of its current terminus at Dyre/233rd.

They also want increased service along unused middle el tracks, and some potential BRT routes. Also discussed is airport access.

They were very negative on increasing main-line commuter service in the Bronx, with the exception of the old Harlem Branch, which MNRR is proposing as part of its Penn access, especially valuable for reverse commutes.

[Radioguy]

By hook or by crook, the Bay Ridge line needs to be converted to mass transit. A Brooklyn crosstown is in dire need.

[Paul1705]

It's notable how much of this goes back to the MTA's "grand plan" of the 1960s. And there are a few items - like a Utica Avenue subway - that were first proposed in 1929.

[Jeff Smith]

I saw that similarity, too. The need for a Cross-Bronx line is especially acute. I always thought Fordham Rd, Tremont, Gun Hill might foot that bill. Some don't run the full width, though, except for Tremont, I think. And although the Third Av line was decrepit, they could definitely use it now.

[Paul1705]

Yes, those would be useful (the Bx36 is incredibly slow, for example). However, I think the MTA is going to have it's hands full with Manhattan projects (Second Avenue subway and LIRR Grand Central access) for the next ten years, at least.

I suspect it's going to be more "Select Bus" services for the near future.

[Jeff Smith]

We'll be lucky if we get what they call the "full-build" scenario in Manhattan finished. I would not be surprised if they get only the Upper East side done to 110. Of course, things could rebound.

[Paul1705]

I'm not sure the MTA has fully funded even the first segment of the Second Avenue subway (which I think would up to the 96th Street station). I think they'll try everything to finish at least that much, rather than facing the embarrassment of abandoning the project a second time.

Regarding the Bay Ridge branch mentioned earlier: a crosstown line might be worth pursuing, because there would be little or no tunneling required. It might be viable as a light-rail project.

[Radioguy]

Regarding the Bay Ridge branch mentioned earlier: a crosstown line might be worth pursuing, because there would be little or no tunneling required. It might be viable as a light-rail project.

Light rail would be a mistake. The R160's are quiet enough to be utilized. Light rail would require new equipment, specialized maintenance and would be isolated from the rest of the system. Full conversion would be best.

[Kamen Rider]

The best would be the intermidate step- an FRA compliant rail system, in order to allow the continuation of fright rail service on the bay ridge.

[Paul1705]

If you're thinking FRA-compliant, then there could be an add-on order of M-7s. Maintenance could be handled by the LIRR (perhaps).

Doesn't fright rail service only operate on Halloween?

[Kamen Rider]

If you're thinking FRA-compliant, then there could be an add-on order of M-7s. Maintenance could be handled by the LIRR (perhaps).

Doesn't fright rail service only operate on Halloween?

I was more leaning to DMU, but if they could make a DMU M1, they can make a DMU M7. (while this has nothing to do with my plan; now that I think about it, one could buy a tri mode car by taking an M8 and attaching a prime mover wherever you can find the room in one car and pluging it into the traction motors . New Haven had a DM RDC streamliner, the Roger Williams so it can''t be that hard)

I had worked somthing out as to a plan.

Bay ridge-Jamacia via Fresh Pond
1.58th street & 2nd ave (north eastern corner of army terminal parking lot.
2.4th ave
3.Fort Hamlton Parkway(N)
4.62nd Street-New utrech(D)(M)(N)
5. 18th ave(F at Mc Donald ave)
6.Ocean Parkway
7.East 16th street (B)(Q)
8.Nosrand-Flatbush aves/Brooklyn college (2)(5)
9.Kings highway
10.Ramsen ave
11.Pennsilvania Ave
12.Linden blvd-New Lots ave (L)
13.Sutter Ave (L)
14.East New York (pre existing Station) (L) (LIRR)
15.Cypress Ave
16.Myrtal ave
17.Fresh Pond Yard-[System Hub] (M)
18.Cooper ave
19.Union Turpike
20.Park Lane South
21.Jamacia Ave (Old Richmond Hill) (J/Z)
22 Jamacia Station (E) (J/Z) (LIRR) (Airtrain)


Bay Ridge- Co-op City via Hell Gate
1.58th street & 2nd ave (north eastern corner of army terminal parking lot.)
2.4th ave
3.Fort Hamlton Parkway
4.62nd Street-New utrech
5. 18th ave
6.Ocean Parkway
7.East 16th street (B)(Q)
8.Nosrand-Flatbush aves/Brooklyn college (2)(5)
9.Kings highway
10.Ramsen ave
11.Pennsilvania Ave
12.Linden blvd-New Lots ave
13.Sutter Ave
14.East New York (pre existing Station)
15.Cypress Ave
16.Myrtal ave
17.Fresh Pond Yard
18.Juniper blvd South
19.Eliot Ave.
20.Grand Ave
21.51st
22. Queens blvd
23.Roosevelt ave
24.Northen Blvd
No Stations On Hell gate bridge
25.E138th st
26.E149th street
27.Longwood Ave
28.Westchester ave (Pre exisitng closed NYWB station)
29.E180th street
30.217th road
31. Pelham Parkway
Diverge- New ROW
32. Bay Plaza
33.Co-op City blvd-Bellamy Loop

LIC-Jamacia (with a more transit style stoping pattern)
1.LIC
2.Greenpoint ave
3.Laurl hill Blvd
4.49th street
5.Grand ave-Flushing ave
6.Metro-Fresh pond
7.Fresh pond yard-(M)
8.Cooper ave
9.Union Turpike
10.Park Lane South
11.Jamacia Ave (Old Richmond Hill)
12 Jamacia Station

LIC- Ozone Park via rockaway branch
1.LIC
2.Greenpoint ave
3.Laurl hill Blvd
4.49th street
5.Grand ave-Flushing ave
6.Metro-Freshpond
7.Freshpond yard (M)
8.Cooper ave
9.Union Turpike(Rockaway line platforms)
Diverge to Rockaway line
10.Myrtal Ave
11.Park lane south
12.Jamacia ave
13.Atlantic Ave (old Ozone Park) (posible reopening of Woodhaven on Atlantic Branch)
14.Liberty Ave (A)
15.Racetrack (old racetrack platform. Subway track F2 transfered to new service. A trains use F4. F3 removed, and new Subway station build ontop.)

[Radioguy]

The best would be the intermidate step- an FRA compliant rail system, in order to allow the continuation of fright rail service on the bay ridge.

Well, for now. However, the industrial areas that are served by the SBK etc are more likely to turn residential as time goes on.

[Kamen Rider]

The best would be the intermidate step- an FRA compliant rail system, in order to allow the continuation of fright rail service on the bay ridge.

Well, for now. However, the industrial areas that are served by the SBK etc are more likely to turn residential as time goes on.

The point is to allow the contiued use of the cross harbor float services.

[Paul1705]

What is the station called "217th Road" in the Bronx (station 30 on the route to Co-op City)?

If the route is along the Northeast Corridor - the old New Haven ROW - likely stations would be at Parkchester (Unionport Road) and near Eastchester Road (for the hospital complexes).

[Kamen Rider]

What is the station called "217th Road" in the Bronx (station 30 on the route to Co-op City)?

If the route is along the Northeast Corridor - the old New Haven ROW - likely stations would be at Parkchester (Unionport Road) and near Eastchester Road (for the hospital complexes).

I chose two alternative sites, 217th street (AKA Williamsbridge Road) and East 180th & East Tremont ave.