Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #44825  by JayMan
 
Say, if the 191st station is a deep tunnel station like 181st and 168th Sts (indeed, the deepest station in the system), why does it have the steel columns running down the middle of the tracks like regular cut-and-cover stations and the not open arched ceilings like the other deep bore stations on the line?

 #44835  by efin98
 
it looks like they split up the arch to include dozens of smaller ones focused on the collumns. Might also have to be do the makeup of the bedrock or ground around the station, meaning it could support the station without the arched ceiling.

 #45632  by Adam E. Moreira
 
There may yet be a deep circle, but the support is likely as it is because of the fact that it is the deepest station in the system. 168 straight to just prior to Dyckman is deep-bored.

 #46503  by bellstbarn
 
One explanation would be to find the opening datesfrom 157th Street north. I have a vague recollection of being told (as answer to that same question when I asked it about 1945) that 191 Street was added to the route late, certainly not opened the same year as 181 St and Dyckman Street. A good history of the IRT would probably answer this. That is, having built it simply as a bored tunnel, they later dug out the platforms for 191 Street (5 years later?), somewhat as the Lex express station at 59th Street was added.

 #46584  by 7 Train
 
Here are the opening dates for the IRT Broadway line (from NYCSubway.org):

South Ferry - Penn Station 7/1/1918
Penn Station - Times Square 6/3/1917
Times Square - 145th St. 10/27/1904
145th to 157th 11/12/1904
157th to 215th 3/12/1906
215th to 225th (Broadway Bridge) 1/14/1907
225th to 242nd 8/1/1908

 #46878  by bellstbarn
 
Thanks to 7 Train for finding on nyscsubway.org the 1907 date. Here is another inconclusive comment: Some engineer designed a few of the stations on the #1 line with grades entering and leaving the station. I believe a train entering 157th, 168th, and 181st goes up a hill when entering (designed to assist braking) and goes down a slope leaving (designed to assist acceleration). Of course, after WWII, the stations were lengthened, but the ramps left in place. The next time I ride past 191 Street, I will have to see whether it is similarly atop a small incline. If not, it might suggest (as my uncertain memory says) that 191 St Station was an afterthought. The only other system where I notice grades entering stations is Montreal (again line 1), but that was for a different reason: to have the stations less deep than the bored tunnels between stations.