G Train Service to Manhattan

[SystemsConsciousness]

I will give one final example and do with it what you like.

Imagine the G does go into Manhattan as I have described and it has always been that way. G Train from LIC to 168 Street Manhattan via Brooklyn.

And let's say some smart transportation engineer says, we're improving the G service. Instead of going into Manhattan it will go 3 stops south along the F train. You'll get to be the only line that doesn't go into Manhattan, you should be proud, congratulations!

What do you think people's reaction would be?

[jtunnel]

If the G ran into Manhattan it would not be the G

I ride the G to avoid Manhattan. Those trains are always crowded when I use them. Sure I liked it better when it ran out on Queens Boulevard all the time.

Recall that a promise of the 63rd Street tunnel was to be able to increase the capacity of the Queens Boulevard line. Talk of super express trains and enhanced services were quickly replaced once the reality of operations came to light. A truncated G that no longer uses the Queens Boulevard lines during rush hour and other "modifications" to the services have come about to save operating costs and wear and tear on the infrastructure.

Planners plan and the operations and infrastructure departments have to deal with the realities. Things get re-prioritized all the time. Have to pick you battles. Funds go away as fast as the markets turn. Todays surplus is tomorrows debt.

[SystemsConsciousness]

You are right--it would not be the G then

The whole basis of my idea is that it is relatively cheap and the benefits are great. If it is not relatively cheap, then the idea floats away. Do you know of any engineering issues that would make it difficult to send the train known now as G into Manhattan?

[Kamen Rider]

I told you atleast twice about the "Engineering difficulties", so why do you keep asking?

[SystemsConsciousness]

Kamen,

Yes you did tell me about the difficulties, but I asked you to be more specific about the grade problem and you didn't elaborate about what the issues were exactly. Besides that, you hate the idea, so I didn't expect you to be very objective in your analysis.

sC

[Kamen Rider]

the Tracks on which the G trains approch from both ends of Hoyt are on grades, which means they are not level with the tracks of the A and C, which means you can't put a switch in. how hard is that to understand?

[SystemsConsciousness]

Thanks. You didn't specify previously the tracks of the two lines were on a different grade. Now it is clearer. So construction would be needed to be done to level the grade and this would be substantially more expensive than installing TWO switches. How much? My guess is a big TBD based on conditions. So not as simple as I thought.

Thank you for clarifying this.

sC

[Hebrewman9]

I will give one final example and do with it what you like.

Imagine the G does go into Manhattan as I have described and it has always been that way. G Train from LIC to 168 Street Manhattan via Brooklyn.

And let's say some smart transportation engineer says, we're improving the G service. Instead of going into Manhattan it will go 3 stops south along the F train. You'll get to be the only line that doesn't go into Manhattan, you should be proud, congratulations!

What do you think people's reaction would be?

Yes, and if I had a Lamborghini I surely wouldn't trade it for my current Buick. So why don't I spend my life savings and get the Lamborghini?

[SystemsConsciousness]

You put your finger on it. What is the cost? If it is not high the a Lambragini seems like a good deal. It is just funny to have the criticism of the idea go from--its a bad idea to its an expensive sports car that can not be afforded. But the grade change issue could be a big one.. I don't know.

sC

[Hebrewman9]

You put your finger on it. What is the cost? If it is not high the a Lambragini seems like a good deal. It is just funny to have the criticism of the idea go from--its a bad idea to its an expensive sports car that can not be afforded. But the grade change issue could be a big one.. I don't know.

sC

What? You're talking gibberish now, and completely missing the point of what I'm saying. If you're saying you don't know, it's time to stop posting these ramblings. Like I said in this or another of your threads, get a blog, because this is getting really repetitive.

[SystemsConsciousness]

Hebrewman,

In case you don't understand. You compared service into Manhattan to an expensive sports car, no? First it was people don't need it, then it was people would like it like a lambragini. So which is it? If it is like a sports car to have service into Manhattan (which I agree with you it is), and if it can be done fairly inexpensively, then it is a good idea. So as far as I can tell you agree with me, more than not.


sC

[RearOfSignal]

I don't know.

The one thing I fully agree with you on.

[Hebrewman9]

Imagine the G does go into Manhattan as I have described and it has always been that way. G Train from LIC to 168 Street Manhattan via Brooklyn.

And let's say some smart transportation engineer says, we're improving the G service. Instead of going into Manhattan it will go 3 stops south along the F train. You'll get to be the only line that doesn't go into Manhattan, you should be proud, congratulations!

Yes, and if I had a Lamborghini I surely wouldn't trade it for my current Buick. So why don't I spend my life savings and get the Lamborghini?

If you can't see what I was saying now, I don't even know what to tell you.

[time to lock this one up?]

[pnaw10]

Folks, the user who stared this thread is the same wacko who's been littering the Metro-North forums with ideas to extend Metro-North service to Springfield, MA and Rhode Island, and even to have Metro-North, LIRR, NJ Transit, MBTA (Boston) and SEPTA (Philly) unite as one giant regional railroad.

I don't visit the subway board often, but I had to laugh when I saw his wacky idea for the G train to Manhattan. The guy wants one-seat rides everywhere. Next you'll have A-trains from 207th Street alternating between the 3 destinations it already serves, going to several other destinations including Coney Island, New Lots Ave and Flushing.

As I told him way back when on the Metro-North board... if you want a guaranteed one-seat ride everywhere, hail a cab!
Just stop giving this guy attention and hopefully he'll finally shut up.

[SystemsConsciousness]

"Stop giving this guy attention and then he'll shut up"... Hmmm that's a curious statement... How...Ironic of you to say it.

Now to the substance of your issue you have proposed about the A train to New Lots? Isn't New Lots on the 2/5 train? Not very serious at all at thinking creatively.

I really don't understand the vitriol here. Sure some ideas require lots of money and therefore seem impractical, I understand that. But G service to Manhattan is potentially not expensive at all. The criticism of this idea, when it is not ad hominum, is either it is not needed--people can change and when things are working well, there is no need for direct service or it is compared to an expensive sports car that everyone would want, but can not be afforded. Logic can be flummoxing to the best of us, but trying to reconcile this has been difficult to say the least.

The most intelligent discourse has come from the Karmen guy who brought up the issue of the tracks entering and exiting H/S were on different grades making installing a switch on both sides potentially expensive. No one else has elaborated on these issues, so I have no idea to their validity, but I give Karmen the benefit of the doubt because he seems knowledgeable about the tracks. But since he hates the idea, he doesn't want to think about it more.

sC