Numbered lines At Capacity

[Jeff Smith]

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs ... 029/NEWS13

NEW YORK (AP) - Some of the city's busiest subway lines are at capacity, with no more room on the tracks to add trains to alleviate swelling crowds of straphangers, officials said.

That bleak assessment was made yesterday by New York City Transit, which presented an analysis of data that shows how often trains run late, how crowded they are and whether more trains could be added to ease the problems. Wow. They should have been expanding ... I think.

[RearOfSignal]

This is another reason why Bloomberg's Congestion Pricing, won't work.

[Paul1705]

The NY Times quoted TA President Howard Roberts, Jr. as saying that he is going to look at platform extensions; for example, the Lexington Avenue line would then handle twelve car trains.

I know platform extensions were done on the IRT lines in the 1950s and '60s, but it sounds like a big project do another round of those. There are certain stations - say, 14th Street-Union Square - that might be difficult to do.

[Rockingham Racer]

I suppose the 2nd Avenue line will relieve the Lex somewhat, but that's still a long way off, isn't it? What will be the end points?

[Jeff Smith]

I think you could do extensions on express tracks, but otherwise, the IRT stations are already pretty close. You might increase headways if you closed a couple stations on local tracks.

[midnight_ride]

This is another reason why Bloomberg's congestion pricing plan is absolutely necessary.

[Paul1705]

I thought of just expanding the express station platforms too. However, express trains are frequently diverted to the local tracks, so an important element of flexibility would be lost.

I can't think of many stations that could reasonably be closed, and any of those would be local stations. The worst crowding seems to be on the expresses, particularly on the Lexington Avenue line.

Regarding the Second Avenue subway: eventually it is supposed to extend from Hanover Square near Wall Street to 125th Street. The earliest the full line would be completed is at least fifteen years from now. There will be provisions for even more distant extensions to the Bronx and Brooklyn.

[L'mont]

This is another reason why Bloomberg's Congestion Pricing, won't work.

This "won't work" sh!t has to stop. There are too many cars. Cars are bad in the city and they cause smog issues. Is there room on the subway? No. Can they make room? Yes, but with some time and LOTS of money. Bloomberg's plan is very good, but other things will have to change and increased subway capacity is one of them.

Isn't that good thing? I hope that the city becomes more reliant on public transit, even more so than it already is.

Just stop with the can'ts and won'ts! That gets us no where.

[L'mont]

I thought of just expanding the express station platforms too. However, express trains are frequently diverted to the local tracks, so an important element of flexibility would be lost.

I can't think of many stations that could reasonably be closed, and any of those would be local stations. The worst crowding seems to be on the expresses, particularly on the Lexington Avenue line.

Regarding the Second Avenue subway: eventually it is supposed to extend from Hanover Square near Wall Street to 125th Street. The earliest the full line would be completed is at least fifteen years from now. There will be provisions for even more distant extensions to the Bronx and Brooklyn.

How about the signaling system upgrades taht were talked about? Would those be able to do much to increase the capacity of the line? (trains wise?)

[RearOfSignal]

This is another reason why Bloomberg's congestion pricing plan is absolutely necessary.

Hmm?? What?

If people who used to commute by car into the city choose to take mass transit instead(as intended by congestion pricing), that will only make things worse for the already overcrowed subways.

Yes the city also suggests carpooling but that will not be done on a large scale.

If they plan to make trains longer that will only lead to longer dwell times at stations where the platform is 10 cars. Places like Union Square will be very difficult to make the platforms any longer. Inevitably people will be caught in the end cars that don't platform and they'll have to walk through to the next car (which is illegal) to get out.

It's still years away but if the TA puts CBTC in the IRT, that will increase capacity.

[RearOfSignal]

This is another reason why Bloomberg's Congestion Pricing, won't work.

This "won't work" sh!t has to stop. There are too many cars. Cars are bad in the city and they cause smog issues. Is there room on the subway? No. Can they make room? Yes, but with some time and LOTS of money. Bloomberg's plan is very good, but other things will have to change and increased subway capacity is one of them.

Isn't that good thing? I hope that the city becomes more reliant on public transit, even more so than it already is.

Just stop with the can'ts and won'ts! That gets us no where.

Bloomberg's plan is to have the revenue from Congestion Pricing pay for upgrades to the mass transit system. But what happens between the time Congestion Pricing starts and the time when actual upgrades are made to the transit system?

You yourself said that there isn't enough room on the subways, so what are you going to do, pack more people on?

CBTC is a start to actually correcting the problem. The other partial problem is that IRT trains are shorter and narrower than IND and BMT cars which means less capacity; and that two of the three major north/south lines in Manhattan are IRT lines (7th Av & the Lex). Perhaps even adjusting or adding train lines to meet demographics and the general flow of commuters could be considered.

There are ways to fix this, putting more people on already overcrowded subways is not the answer. That's just throwing gas on the fire.

[L'mont]

There are ways to fix this, putting more people on already overcrowded subways is not the answer. That's just throwing gas on the fire.

Yes, that's certainly not the answer. Quick fixes like making the platforms longer isn't the answer either. We need legit fixes and most of them are going to take a while and costs a lot. Someday the 2nd avenue line will reach Hanover Sq. This will make a HUGE difference. How about the idea of making 42nd street a pedestrian walkway with a light rail system running accross the island?

The more pressure that is put on the politicians means more money for the MTA. The politicians don't make policy, but nothing happens without there money.

[RearOfSignal]

How about the idea of making 42nd street a pedestrian walkway with a light rail system running accross the island?

That will alleviate auto traffic and even traffic on the 42nd street shuttle, but will do little for the capacity issues on the Lex. The 2nd Av subway will help ease a lot of the pressure on the Lex. But even still improvements can be made on the Lexington line, such as CBTC.

[midnight_ride]

Hmm?? What?

I'll say it again: This is another reason why Bloomberg's plan is absolutely necessary.

Bloomberg's plan is to have the revenue from Congestion Pricing pay for upgrades to the mass transit system. But what happens between the time Congestion Pricing starts and the time when actual upgrades are made to the transit system?

Invest, through borrowing if necessary, more money in mass transit in New York City. This is one of those problems (and they are few and far between) that really can be solved with more money. Now, if we don't want to spend the money, then it's really not a matter of things not working, but rather, a lack of will to get the job done.

[RearOfSignal]

Invest, through borrowing if necessary, more money in mass transit in New York City. This is one of those problems (and they are few and far between) that really can be solved with more money. Now, if we don't want to spend the money, then it's really not a matter of things not working, but rather, a lack of will to get the job done.

Money is not the problem, the problem is overcrowding on the subways and the timing of the upgrades. If the city wants to start subway upgrades before congestion pricing goes into effect and use the anticipated revenue from Congestion pricing to pay off the mass transit upgrades then fine. But don't force even more people onto the subways while not having already started to make improvements. That will only make any upgrades to the system take longer to implement.

Plus the city and state have already made some moves in this area; the 2nd ave subway and ESA. But like anything it takes time to complete.