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Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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 #413765  by L'mont
 
"'ROBO' DRIVER CITY'S EASIEST JOB
By JEREMY OLSHAN NY Post Transit Reporter

SWITCHING OFF FOREVER: The L train is phasing out the operator's emergency "dead man's switch."June 11, 2007 -- In three years, the easiest job in New York will be L train operator - whose only job will be pushing a button every 30 seconds to prove he's still breathing.

The trains will be so automated, they'll be able to start, stop, speed up and slow down without any human help.

The operator will take over only in an emergency - such as a passenger falling off a platform, or if the automatic system fails.

Normally, the operator's only duty will be pushing the button to prove to the system he's awake and capable of springing into action.

If he or she doesn't push the button, the train will come to a stop.

It's the updated version of the current "dead man's switch" - which is part of the train operator's controls.

Unless the operator keeps downward pressure on it, the brakes engage immediately.

The automated system is expected to be operational on the L train - which runs between Canarsie, Brooklyn, and Eighth Avenue and 14th Street in Manhattan - by 2010.

The "robo-train" will go systemwide somewhere down the line.

Even though recently delivered cars in use on the L have the switches, the trains are being operated the old-fashioned way until testing is complete.

Some subway workers are not happy about the new method - especially in light of the recent deaths of track workers Marvin Franklin and Daniel Boggs.

They point out that if the operator should become incapacitated just after pushing the button, it would take 30 seconds for the train to come to a halt.

"The dead man's feature is a tried-and-true safety device which has the potential of saving dozens of lives in the event the train operator becomes incapacitated," track worker John Samuelsen said.

"Thirty seconds is too long to wait for the train to brake."

Samuelsen has accused the leadership of Transport Workers Local 100 of not fighting aggressively enough against automation.

The TWU did not respond to a request for comment.

NYC Transit officials would not discuss the automated trains, since issues involving their operation are still being arbitrated.

Train operators say the dead man's switch is most often activated when operators fall asleep at the controls.

Often, when that happens, "they report that there was no cause for the brakes to be [activated], and that maybe someone pulled the brake," one veteran train operator said.

"Sometimes, it is released by accident. If you hold it down hard and then let it up a couple of inches, it will go off."

A fire on April 21, 1964 destroyed automated R-17s 6595,6597 and 6601 equipped with GRS automated equipment and Otis Elevator Corp. Door Opening Devices. It quickly spread to the wooden platform covering the former track 2. The heat rose to 1200 degrees and the steel columns holding up E 42 Street buckled resulting in the closure of that street for several weeks."




So, one step towards an automated subway system or what?

 #413780  by RearOfSignal
 
I hope not. But the only thing you can't stop is change. Someday down the line this will be the reality of mass transit systems.

I have spoken to some NYCT Train Operators, about this but they think NYC is too busy of a city for this to be proven safe, at least not yet.

 #413800  by L'mont
 
rcervel wrote:I hope not. But the only thing you can't stop is change. Someday down the line this will be the reality of mass transit systems.

I have spoken to some NYCT Train Operators, about this but they think NYC is too busy of a city for this to be proven safe, at least not yet.
I sorta hope not too, but I think we're goign to see it sooner or later. Look at BART. It hasn't been perfect, but it's pretty good.

 #414825  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
No transit system in the US has the volume of people that NYC has. Even with conductors, whose job it is to protect the train as it moves out of the station, occasionally someone gets caught in the doors and dragged. Imagine what it's going to be like without the conductor.

 #414918  by RearOfSignal
 
UpperHarlemLine4ever wrote:No transit system in the US has the volume of people that NYC has. Even with conductors, whose job it is to protect the train as it moves out of the station, occasionally someone gets caught in the doors and dragged. Imagine what it's going to be like without the conductor.
That's why I don't think that this will work very well. If there's one accident involving this system, the TO's & conductors will be back to normal operating the next day and there will be added scrutiny on the MTA about it, which they wouldn't want.

 #416167  by L'mont
 
rcervel wrote:
UpperHarlemLine4ever wrote:No transit system in the US has the volume of people that NYC has. Even with conductors, whose job it is to protect the train as it moves out of the station, occasionally someone gets caught in the doors and dragged. Imagine what it's going to be like without the conductor.
That's why I don't think that this will work very well. If there's one accident involving this system, the TO's & conductors will be back to normal operating the next day and there will be added scrutiny on the MTA about it, which they wouldn't want.
Well, someday they're going to figure it out because people are goign to wonder why someone makes the money they do to push a button.

 #416745  by Jay Bong
 
That news is good progress. NYCT will be joining many systems around the world in automated train systems, including London's Victoria Line, BART, WMATA, Baltimore Metro and and Paris Metro #14.

 #421167  by Sleazy Santa
 
screw the rest of the world and their obese pushbutton trolleys!

Now that that's out of my system, since there's an option to switch to manual in an emergency... is there an option to switch to manual in a non-emergency? Say I'm king of the train I feel like sneekily driving it, can i push a button and start controlling it like some sort of interactive train driving device?

 #422793  by astoriaalex
 
the door problem could be easily recified by having subway doors reopen when they touch something

 #422824  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
If the doors were to reopen when they are touched, something that was tried in the past, the trains would never move. But who knows, perhaps thats what they should do, stay in the station and never move. Little bit of humor.

 #424409  by RearOfSignal
 
UpperHarlemLine4ever wrote:If the doors were to reopen when they are touched, something that was tried in the past, the trains would never move. But who knows, perhaps thats what they should do, stay in the station and never move. Little bit of humor.
Haha - just the thought of that makes laugh. Anybody who has ever regularly used the NYC Subways has themself or has seen someone else fight with a closing door and usually lose a hat or umbrella or breifcase in the act. Sometimes getting on the train looks like the opening scene of Jurassic Park, where the raptor is pulling the guy through the half-open door and the people are on the other side pulling back. :P

 #424622  by StevieC48
 
Im sure the unions will fight this one to the death. And will win and keep opersting as normal.

 #424829  by L'mont
 
StevieC48 wrote:Im sure the unions will fight this one to the death. And will win and keep opersting as normal.

Ahhhhhh Unions.............promoting advancement as usual. Otherwise called short sighted stupidity.

 #426665  by geoking66
 
Unions are so annoying. All they do is hurt the MTA by making them give more money to operators and screw everything up for commuters who depend on the service. They make strikes that disrupt the city and extremely hurt businesses. Toussaint sucks.

 #428932  by n2cbo
 
I remember reading about a Washington DC Metro where the operator stepped outside the car for some reason, and the doors closed by timer before he could get back in, and the train left the station with NO OPERATOR on board. It continued to stop at each station, but did not open the doors (that had to be done manually, in fact, that is pretty much all the operator does... 8^) ). After quite a few stops, they finally got a supervisor to meet the train and open the doors from outside, and shut it down. It has been quite a few years since I remember reading this, so please don't flame me if my memory has failed me ...