Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by rcbsd45
 
From thew website of local radio station WCBS, comes the following item aboiut the NYC TA's proposal to outlaw subway photography. Deatils can be found at:

http://wcbs880.com/local/NYC--SubwayPho ... _news_html

  by kevikens
 
I can't argue with their right to prevent photography on the vehicles or on their property. I can live with a policy that lets me photograph OFF their property which is not what NJT has in mind for New Jersey.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
One of the few times I will allow copy and paste:
New York-AP) -- Transit officials today proposed banning photography on subways and buses to deter terrorists from conducting surveillance of the nation's largest mass transit system.
NYC Transit, the division of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that runs the subways, the buses and the Staten Island Railway, said the ban on photography and videotaping wouldn't apply to journalists with valid press cards or to people with written permission.
Officials have paid increasing attention to transit security as the Republican National Convention approaches and after the March 11 Madrid commuter train bombings, which killed 191 people.
Emergency officials staged a mock explosion in a downtown Manhattan subway terminal on Sunday.
NYC Transit President Lawrence Reuter said the rule changes were intended to enhance security and safety for customers and employees.
Gene Russianoff, attorney for the Straphangers Campaign, a commuter advocacy group, said the photo ban raises serious First Amendment issues by allowing only journalists and people with MTA permission to take photos and make videos.
The photo and video ban had been part of the rules on ridership until 10 years ago, when it was removed.
NYC Transit also proposed banning passengers from using end doors to move from one subway car to another, putting feet up on seats and standing on skateboards on subways or buses, among other changes.
Violators of the rules would be subject to fines. The changes need MTA board approval after a 45-day period of public comment.

Boy what a big friggin mistake this would be. If this every came to pass, I will personally organize a photo shoot with 50 of my closest friends somewhere on the NYCTA... care to join me? I dont see this passing by a long shot.

-otto-

  by matt1168
 
You guys may want to take a look at www.nycsubway.org to see what they have done in response to this proposed ban, althoguh I'm not sure it will still be in effect after today (May 21).

As I posted on SubTalk earlier today:

Yeah, because you really need pictures to blow up a train, right?

Because the terrorists are so f*cking dumb that they would look at a photo of a busy platform and say, "I'm gonna bomb right THERE," without any planning or information, right?

Maybe the MTA should just go ahead and enact a subway-riding ban. Hell, maybe they should just ban people from being on any streets that have subways running below them or els above them. Wouldn't that be logical?

A terrorist (hate to say it) can walk into the Times Sq. subway station at any time and blow it out, pictures or no pictures.

This is just something that will piss off us railfans, and instead of sitting here and just typing about it, we should DO something about it.

Also, I like what Dave's done with the site, as past pictures could be "historical references".

I can tell you now, that ban or no ban, I will continue to take pictures on the subway system, as it has been one of my rights for years, and I'm not letting my freedom be violated in yet another way because terrorists crashed a f*cking plane.

This is still the USA, regardless of what terrorists exsist.

  by efin98
 
All the anger and frustration over a simple matter. It could be worse, at least there is a possibility that photography can be allowed to some degree. Do as was done in Boston and Chicago, issue photo permits to frequent photographers and only make a suggestion to tourists to not photograph trains or property without a permit. For those who continue to do so after the warning was given, issue a ticket. It's not the end of the world, you can railfan with limits.

Give up an hour or two to get a permit. Both sides get what they want and you will ahve protection from the law with the permit, since you would have the legal OK from the MTA to photograph within reason. The only limit is the extra equiptment you wuold use(no tripods, flashes, or anything that can obstruct)and where you can and can't photograph(anywhere that is public property and in view from public property, minus sensitive areas).

  by NIMBYkiller
 
A permit is a pointless waste of time. if terrorsits can get into the country with no problem, do you really think a permit to take photos is gonna do *? No way in hell. This whole ban idea is so friggin stupid. The terrorists have what they need, and w/e they dont have they can easily find on the internet or from some other information source.

A ban will only hurt tourism and will piss off us railfans(even though I plan on continuing to take photos, with or without a ban).

  by JayMan
 
efin98 wrote: The only limit is the extra equiptment you wuold use(no tripods, flashes, or anything that can obstruct)and where you can and can't photograph(anywhere that is public property and in view from public property, minus sensitive areas).
That's the way the rules are right now, so...

  by efin98
 
If they are already banned, then ok. A clear head would see that the MTA has an impossible task to do if they are banning all photography, and there is no way that the MTA would want to lose the riders and publicity from the total ban. A permit is a great compromise, better to give up a little time to allow for railfanning to continue than lose everything.

It's not the end of the world.

  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Are you guys for real? You and I are not going to be able to get permits. If you think you'll be able to good luck. I'm telling you right now, you're not going to get a photo permit. Just don't take photos. Like stopping photography is going to stop terrorists. Terrorist don't need to take photos to figure out how to blow up a train. If they want to blow up a train, they'll get on a train and at a strategic location, they'll blow themselves and the train to smiterines as they did in Madrid. Don't think photos were involved there.

They railroads and the transit agencies don't want amatuer photographers to take photos and this is a simple excuse to stop photography. BTW, IF for some reason terrorists need to take photos of transit facilities, there is a thing called a video cell phone (camera, eh). They can take a photo while on the phone. No one will dare stop the darlings on their cell phones, will they?

It's just us poor schlubs who are rail enthusiasts. Someone better start a lawsuit on this one real fast. This thing is getting out of hand.

  by Robert Paniagua
 
Yes, here in Boston you need to obtain an ID oka consent from the T. As for NYCT, I got to take all my pictures (without a photo pass) of its coaches, its Washington St. El Orange-Line style stations and infrastructure, and even film the last R36 units. I never been pulled over by NYPD there, only in WMATAland, where I got pulled over by WMATA PD just 27 days after 11SEP01.

And as Efin98 says, I would get my permit too, just to be on the safe side here, especially since I was gonna film the Aboveground portion of the Lechmere-North Station Green Line Extension.

This is being done all because of Madrid 3-1-1. Uphere in Boston, they will now scrutinize passengers to see if they are doing anything illegal citing.......yup, you guessed it, same thing, Madrid 3-1-1. Forger 11SEP01, I guess the Madrid Rail Massacre means more to U. S. Rail protection now than befoure that massacre happened.

  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
This is not being done because of Madrid. I was photoing last summer at Croton-Harmon, was on a public street and was questioned by the MTA police. I had the good fortune of still being a law enforcement officer for NYS (I have since retired). If not, I don't know what they would have done to me. I was polite and corteous and was still harassed. I personally swore after that incident that I will never take another RR photo as long as I live. It's not worth the headache. Get it through your thick skulls, they, the transit agencies don't want you taking photos. 9/11 is just an excuse to bring back a rule that existed for years about taking photos. Even the old New York Central (Metro-North's ancestor sort of speak here in NY) had a similar rule. Either fight this in court or stop taking photos. You or I, train buff, photo hobbiest will not be given a permit to take pictures. These permits will be given only to professional photographers who PAY a fee. It's as simple as that.

  by efin98
 
I find it funny and ironic that people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a hobby but won't spend a few dollars on a permit to allow them the right and protection to allow them to lawfully practice that hobby. So you would have to buy a permit, big deal. It's not the end of the world.

  by JayMan
 
efin98 wrote:I find it funny and ironic that people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a hobby but won't spend a few dollars on a permit to allow them the right and protection to allow them to lawfully practice that hobby. So you would have to buy a permit, big deal. It's not the end of the world.
That is of course all providing that there will actually be permits availible, and that they'll actually be good for something. It's entirely the difference between the MBTA's permits, which are free and allow photography anywhere in the system for 3 months, and NJ Transit's "permits", which are difficult to obtain, only allow photography in one specific place and expire after one day. And, no matter how you you look at it, tourists that might snap the casual photo are screwed. It's the idea -- why should we have a permit (which the MTA can eliminate on a whim) to do something that's free and legal anyway?

  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Guys, here's the deal. Believe me, if you think you as a railfan are going to be able to get a permit to take photos from the NYCTA, don't hold your breath. There will be background checks, fingerprinting and letters of reference. If you're willing to wait this out and it will take about a year and pay a considerable fee (BTW the fingerprints alone cost $75 and take about 3 months, perhaps then you'll get a permit.

If you think they are going to just hand these things out, boy are you living in la la land.

Good Luck. You'll never get me to take another rail photo.

  by efin98
 
Your loss then.