Railroad Forums
PA-4 Cars
- Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).
Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain
The PA said that they would rebuild the PA-4 cars and retire the PA-1, PA-2, and PA-3 cars when the PA-5's arrive. I actually like the PA-4's the least. I ride PATH twice a day and always gravitate towards the other types of cars.
"Please do not attempt to board the train until it has arrived in the station. Thank you."
"Use Track 5 for the 5:17 local train to Raritan which has just departed."
"Use Track 5 for the 5:17 local train to Raritan which has just departed."
I wouldn't count on the PA-5 being compatible with the PA-4. We're talking 20 years difference in technology here. Looking back in PATH history, when the PA-1's arrived in the late 60's, they were not compatible with the K-class cars of 10 years earlier, which were bumped to Hoboken service. 
Unless they do some real serious overhauls on the PA-4 Cars, which costs money...
I wouldn't count on the PA-5 being compatible with the PA-4Why not? They have the same builder (Kawasaki). If the PA-4 was designed to run with the elder PA fleet (builders being St. Louis Car Company and Hawker-Siddeley), no reason why PA-5 and PA-4 ought be built deliberately incompatible.
As for the K-cars, they came in during the time before PATH, being jointly bought by the Hudson & Manhattan and the Pennsylvania Railroad (who called their ones the MP52, per one source). The PA-fleet (note the name) was owned by the Port Authority; they did not buy the K-cars, whose ownership passed to Penn Central and subsequently to Conrail; and since there were but fifty of the K-cars to begin with (three damaged in an accident in 1963, reducing the fleet to 47) and the PA-fleet was to replace the remaining 200 non air-conditioned cars (the "black cars" and "red cars"), the K-cars became oddballs.
Irish Chieftain wrote:No.How do you know? PATH says they are replacing the fleet of 340 cars. That accounts for ALL of the cars of the current fleet, including the PA-4 cars.
What the PA said is that they intend to replace or rehabilitate the fleet of PATH cars, per this page from 2001...later on, they claim to intend to replace the entire fleet by 2011, on this page from 2005...but this page from 2004 indicates that the $809 million budget (same amount as quoted in the 2005 page) is intended to buy 246 new cars from Kawasaki and rehabilitate the newer cars, not to buy 340 new PA-5 cars (unless the price for new PA-5 cars has suddenly come down).
If the PA's going to junk the PA-4 cars, then they're foolish to do so. In 2011, the PA-4 fleet will only be 25 years old.
If the PA's going to junk the PA-4 cars, then they're foolish to do so. In 2011, the PA-4 fleet will only be 25 years old.
Irish Chieftain wrote:What the PA said is that they intend to replace or rehabilitate the fleet of PATH cars, per this page from 2001...later on, they claim to intend to replace the entire fleet by 2011, on this page from 2005...but this page from 2004 indicates that the $809 million budget (same amount as quoted in the 2005 page) is intended to buy 246 new cars from Kawasaki and rehabilitate the newer cars, not to buy 340 new PA-5 cars (unless the price for new PA-5 cars has suddenly come down).Based on the most recent press release, my guess is that they decided to replace them at age 25, without a rebuild, in order to unify the fleet. The cost savings of not having two different car types might offset the extra cost of replacing instead of rebuilding the PA-4 fleet.
If the PA's going to junk the PA-4 cars, then they're foolish to do so. In 2011, the PA-4 fleet will only be 25 years old.
I also remember the intitial announcement saying that they would retire the PA-1 through PA-3 cars but *not* the PA-4 cars when the PA-5 cars arrived. The plan was to rebuild the PA-4's.
In my opinion, those cars are in very good shape. Plus they're stainless steel. You can see that they are much newer than the others by just glancing at the interior or the exterior of the cars.
In my opinion, those cars are in very good shape. Plus they're stainless steel. You can see that they are much newer than the others by just glancing at the interior or the exterior of the cars.
"Please do not attempt to board the train until it has arrived in the station. Thank you."
"Use Track 5 for the 5:17 local train to Raritan which has just departed."
"Use Track 5 for the 5:17 local train to Raritan which has just departed."