Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #198697  by arrow
 
Please...a debate about health insurance is not appropriate in this forum.

Back on topic, what is the status of all the fines imposed against the union and its workers? I hope that the city collects these fines and doesn't let them get away with what they did. Mayor Bloomberg has said that the fines are non-negotiable and will be imposed no matter what. We'll see what happens with that I guess.

 #198698  by arrow
 
jtr1962 wrote:The MTA is paying their workers enough. Like I said, if they want more work with management on ways to increase productivity rather than running to the union demanding wage increases.
I agree with this, unfortunately I don't think it will every happen any differently.
jtr1962 wrote:And don't use scare tactics like running misleading commercials saying how dangerous productivity enhancements like phasing out through attrition, not firing, conductors or token clerks is. It seems that the sole justification for keepin token clerks now is to "call for help". I'd rather the MTA just put a cop or two on every station who can actually help instead. Ditto for conductors. We already have lots of cops in trains and on stations anyway.
Agree...I for one think that the MTA did an admirable job not firing token booth attendants now that their jobs are obselete for the most part. Using these employees to fill in other areas of the MTA that need more employees seems like common sense to me, yet the union continues to argue this point. Would they rather see these employees fired instead of relocated?
jtr1962 wrote:The union should remember that the MTA is not an employment agency for the workers and their children. They should be able to move people around and cut positions as they see fit.
This is the key point of my argument as well, the union doesn't seem to understand that they work for the MTA, it's not the other way around. The MTA is the one signing their checks after all.
jtr1962 wrote:Also, funny how without a union there are workers who get more than these transit workers. How do they do it? Easy-they justify their pay in terms of what they know and/or their productivity. That's what I meant about acting like a professional. That's the reason I would never work for a labor union. I don't want my pay increases limited to what the union can negotiate. I want them limited by how much I can prove to my employer that I'm worth. If I make someone else look bad in the process tough. It's not my place to hold back so someone else can not look bad. If my current employer fails to pay me what I'm really worth I can always leave. And if nobody pays me what I think I'm worth then maybe I have an unrealistic picture of how much I should be paid.
What an excellent point. Unions are always known to be notorius for this. Unions exist in my mind as cover-up agencies. As was posted several times by others already, there are so many occasions when union workers get upset with other workers for working too hard, too fast, or whatever. They know that they can't really be fired very easily, they know they'll always get guaranteed wage increases when the union argues for them, what is their motivation to work? A non-union worker has to show that he is worth what his company is paying him, and that is the way it should be.

 #198751  by ryanov
 
arrow wrote:Please...a debate about health insurance is not appropriate in this forum.
Complaining about a post is even more off-topic. If you have a problem, contact the moderator.

 #198759  by arrow
 
uhh...I am the moderator :P

Thanks!

 #198852  by ryanov
 
Yeah, well... I knew that. :wink: Or something...

LOL.

Merry Christmas.

 #199137  by Rah2005
 
Ok here are my thoughts.

Everyone one is wrong here. The MTA is wrong for putting the pension thing on the table. The Union is wrong for Striking. The Mayor is wrong for his comments.

1. The Union - They are wrong for the strike. The law prevents them for going on strike, but that doesn’t reason towards their wages. Unless you’re a worker, you may have no idea of what they may make. The strike was not trying to abandon the city. The President may have said that, but if you heard some of the testimonies from the workers they did this for just causes. To me, the strike was the only way to tell the MTA "We are serious about this." Some companies have gone on for years without getting what they wanted, and still had work under their current wages. The strike was unnecessary but somewhat needed to get some kind of point across.

2. The Mayor - I hated the way he went about this. Don’t get me wrong he's done a great job as Mayor, but he is supposed to be the voice of the people while expressing his side. The words he spoke did nothing but flame and anger workers. Fighting for what your want is a RIGHT!

3. The MTA - Okay, this could have been avoided if taken care long ago. Some workers or MTA bus haven’t had a contract. That shows that they may have prolonged the negotiation till the last minute.


These are just my thoughts. Before
you flame or anything, check if I said the word "may".
Last edited by Rah2005 on Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

 #199138  by Rah2005
 
arrow wrote:Please...a debate about health insurance is not appropriate in this forum.

Back on topic, what is the status of all the fines imposed against the union and its workers? I hope that the city collects these fines and doesn't let them get away with what they did. Mayor Bloomberg has said that the fines are non-negotiable and will be imposed no matter what. We'll see what happens with that I guess.

What I belive is that the Workers are loosing 6 days pay. The union currently have 3.5 million dollars in there fund. 3 million of that is going towards the fines. This is towards my knowledge.

 #199149  by Silverliner II
 
Down here in Philly, SEPTA has a nasty habit of waiting till the near last minute to deal with contract negotiations.

Though here in PA, transit strikes are very much legal....

 #199206  by arrow
 
Rah2005 wrote: 1. The Union - They are wrong for the strike. The law prevents them for going on strike, but that doesn’t reason towards their wages. Unless you’re a worker, you may have no idea of what they may make.
Exactly.
Rah2005 wrote: The strike was not trying to abandon the city. The President may have said that, but if you heard some of the testimonies from the workers they did this for just causes.
Well, the President is the voice of that organization so what he says is what people most hear. Maybe he should have reworded some of his statements.
Rah2005 wrote: To me, the strike was the only way to tell the MTA "We are serious about this." Some companies have gone on for years without getting what they wanted, and still had work under their current wages. The strike was unnecessary but somewhat needed to get some kind of point across.
And what did they accomplish with the strike? Absolutely nothing except lost money and lost support from the public. Keeping the negotiations going (as the MTA said...striking will not get you a contract) was the proper way of doing things, which is how it turned out anyway.
Rah2005 wrote: 2. The Mayor - I hated the way he went about this. Don’t get me wrong he's done a great job as Mayor, but he is supposed to be the voice of the people while expressing his side. The words he spoke did nothing but flame and anger workers. Fighting for what your want is a RIGHT!
I think the mayor said what most of the public was thinking. I don't see much wrong with that, although he could have been a little more subtle I guess.
Rah2005 wrote: 3. The MTA - Okay, this could have been avoided if taken care long ago. Some workers or MTA bus haven’t had a contract. That shows that they may have prolonged the negotiation till the last minute.
I agree that the MTA should have started negotiating earlier, but I still stand by my opinion that the workers are treated well. It's a guarantee that everytime the transit workers' contract expires they always ask for something more.

 #199264  by djlong
 
Ok, I've ragged on the union enough, and I probably could continue to do so BUT there's something that nags at me that I can't help but to at least mention...

Has *nobody* learned from the example of Southwest Airlines?

Herb Kelleher opened up the books to the various unions (pilots, machinists, flight attendants, etc) and has always had his negotiators on speed-dial. They have a history of being close so that when the union guy talks to the 'managment' guy, he KNOWS that he's talking to someone that really had the CEO's ear.

Southwest has NEVER been hit by a strike. In act, as far as I know there has only been one vote by one union to even AUTHORIZE a strike vote!

If the MTA could be that forthcoming, do you think the union might be less belligerent? Let's face it - the MTA is funded with tax dollars, lots of them, to cover up the revenue shortfalls.

And if the MTA had more of an "open book" policy and the TWU *still* acted like selfish children, I think it would be high time for the membership to elect different leadership.

And the reverse holds true. If the taxpayers saw the MTA as a bunch of idiots with the union making reasonable requests....

So I'd say to the guys over at the MTA - Hey! It doesn't HAVE to be like this...

 #199305  by Allan
 
Rah2005 wrote:
2. ............. Fighting for what you want is a RIGHT!

But getting what you want isn't (a Right).

 #199343  by ryanov
 
arrow wrote: I agree that the MTA should have started negotiating earlier, but I still stand by my opinion that the workers are treated well. It's a guarantee that everytime the transit workers' contract expires they always ask for something more.
Why would someone ask for less? When is the last time your bills asked for less or anything else? I'm sure you've got older relatives who remember when the subway cost a nickel.

Do you know any transit workers?

 #199345  by ryanov
 
djlong wrote: And if the MTA had more of an "open book" policy and the TWU *still* acted like selfish children, I think it would be high time for the membership to elect different leadership.
I think this characterization is lame. You haven't backed it up whatsoever, you just think that they should have taken what the MTA offered. They disagreed and went on strike. What would you have done? Said this is pretty good, I don't deserve any more, and I should have to pay for formerly free health care?

 #199346  by ryanov
 
Allan wrote:
Rah2005 wrote:
2. ............. Fighting for what you want is a RIGHT!

But getting what you want isn't (a Right).
Maybe not. But that is irrelevant, as going on strike was fighting for what they wanted, not getting it.

 #199444  by arrow
 
ryanov wrote:
arrow wrote: I agree that the MTA should have started negotiating earlier, but I still stand by my opinion that the workers are treated well. It's a guarantee that everytime the transit workers' contract expires they always ask for something more.
Why would someone ask for less? When is the last time your bills asked for less or anything else? I'm sure you've got older relatives who remember when the subway cost a nickel.

Do you know any transit workers?
I didn't say they should ask for less, but you never hear them agreeing to a new contract with the same terms as their current one do you?
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