I'd Give PATH About a C+

[RailBus63]

My family and I rode PATH every day on a weekend trip to the city earlier this month (we stayed at a hotel at the Pavonia/Newport stop) and I'd give the system an A-, if not higher. Service was frequent and without delay, the cars were comfortable, and the facilities were clean.

In regards to the ticket machines and the turnstiles — I visit NYC several times each year and am very comfortable using Metrocard machines, so I had no problems with those, and the turnstiles we used worked flawlessly all weekend. I would guess that the vast majority of PATH riders have no problems with these machines. It's unfortunate that you came across instructions that may confuse an unfamiliar rider, but I hardly think that is sufficient to give the overall system such a low grade.

My 2¢ worth.

Jim

[blasito]

Ok, what would be the standard against which the PATH be judged? Let's look across the river at the NYC subway system and see how its lines are rated by rider advocates.
Straphangers Campaign : State of the Subways

"They want short waits, trains that arrive regularly, a chance for a seat, a clean car and understandable announcements that tell them what they need to know."

From my personal experience, I think the 1 train provides the most frequent, reliable, but not the cleanest service in NYC, and would get an A in my book.

In comparison the PATH would get a B+. While I think the PATH trains are cleaner, and better maintained than the NYC Subways, the infrequent service outside of rush hour, even though there is more than enough demand for it, will always keep the PATH below an A.

I know that the PA runs PATH on a very tight budget and I think they do a very good job overall, but they miss the forest for the trees when it comes to service frequency.

Many systems in Europe run on 1 to 3 minute headways throughout the evening, and suprise suprise, everyone uses them!

So that is my one big complaint about an otherwise great system. You may return to waiting for your train, it will arrive in 10 to 20 minutes!

[TimK]

I don't know of a single system in Europe that runs on 1-3 minute headways outside the rush hour. What systems are you referring to? *curious*

Best,
Tim

[RailBus63]

The Journal Square-Hoboken-33rd St. line on Saturday and Sunday was well-patronized by a broad cross-section of customers during my recent visit - families, young adults (some dressed very nicely), working folks, etc. I really don't think the 15-minute evening headway is turning off very many potential customers. It certainly wasn't a turn-off for us.

Jim

[M&Eman]

After going out for a night in Chelsea, I remember having to go to the bathroom while waiting at 9th Street for my PATH train to Hoboken. I didn't want to run to a bathroom on the street because if I missed the next train, I would have only two minutes to make my connection to NJT in Hoboken. So I held it in for the ten minutes waiting for PATH and the ten-minute ride to Hoboken, then made a mad dash to the restroom when I got there. Due to PATH's awkward headways, I almost embarrassed myself publicly. PATH needs better evening service on weekends at least to attract day-trippers to downtown.

[RailBus63]

PATH needs better evening service on weekends at least to attract day-trippers to downtown.

If Metro North, Long Island and NJ Transit seem to be having no problem attracting day-trippers with headways of 30 to 60 minutes or worse, I don't understand why people think PATH is having a problem with its 20-minute evening headways. For the kind of suburban riders you are trying to attract, this is no big deal.

[blasito]

The Journal Square-Hoboken-33rd St. line on Saturday and Sunday was well-patronized by a broad cross-section of customers during my recent visit - families, young adults (some dressed very nicely), working folks, etc. I really don't think the 15-minute evening headway is turning off very many potential customers. It certainly wasn't a turn-off for us.

Jim

I think this is what the PA would argue.

But I don't think I was arguing that there was a lack of ridership, in fact on late evening trains from Thurs thru Sat there can be uncomfortable over-crowding. And the new weekend service 33 to Hob to JSQ train is often full arriving at Hoboken with many waiting to get on. There is already enough demand.

I thought I was suggesting that with added service they would get even more customers, more revenue and more cars out of Manhattan.

But the PA makes better $$$ off of every one of those cars, and that interest conflicts with increasing public transit use and it has the same influence as the airport parking revenues have on the price of the AirTrain. They don't have an interest in encourging NJ drivers to take the PATH.

Tim,
The Moscow Subway runs until 1 am every 3 minutes or so. It was always busy but never overcrowded when I rode it at all times of day. It makes the subway seem almost more like an elevator, and connections aren't as much of a hassle (unless you can't read cyrilic, but that was my problem, doh!)

I agree that its service is novel and that you're right that most cities adjust around "rush hours". But most major Euro cities have fairly frequent service until 1 or 2 am, at least every 10 minutes. And NYC night life goes much later than most European cities. One of the things I love about PATH is that it is a 24 hour system!

[TimK]

Tim,
The Moscow Subway runs until 1 am every 3 minutes or so. It was always busy but never overcrowded when I rode it at all times of day. It makes the subway seem almost more like an elevator, and connections aren't as much of a hassle (unless you can't read cyrilic, but that was my problem, doh!)

I agree that its service is novel and that you're right that most cities adjust around "rush hours". But most major Euro cities have fairly frequent service until 1 or 2 am, at least every 10 minutes. And NYC night life goes much later than most European cities. One of the things I love about PATH is that it is a 24 hour system!

Point taken about Moscow. I'll admit that I saw "European" and thought "Western European."

Of course, part of the reason they can do that in Moscow is that salaries, which are a major component of the cost of transit service, are much lower than in the West, and another is that they don't have a decades-long tradition of widespread car ownership, and their land use patterns generally reflect this (which means they have the ridership to support service that frequent).

Best,
Tim

[Irish Chieftain]

Moscow Metro can't be compared with the rest of Europe. Its operations still are influenced by the communist past (future?) of Russia.

most major Euro cities have fairly frequent service until 1 or 2 am, at least every 10 minutes

Care to cite what cities in particular? I looked up Hamburg's U-Bahn, and that runs at a 20-minute frequency on late nights. Statistics of other cities I'm finding hard to ascertain.

[TimK]

Moscow Metro can't be compared with the rest of Europe. Its operations still are influenced by the communist past (future?) of Russia.

most major Euro cities have fairly frequent service until 1 or 2 am, at least every 10 minutes

Care to cite what cities in particular? I looked up Hamburg's U-Bahn, and that runs at a 20-minute frequency on late nights. Statistics of other cities I'm finding hard to ascertain.

I can add that Stockholm's subway runs at 10-minute intervals generally until about 8 or 9 p.m. (depending on line), then at 15-minute intervals until about midnight (weekend nights) or 1 a.m. (weekday nights), and then on weekend nights at 30-minute intervals until about 3:30 a.m.

Best,
Tim