NY Times 1/14: Union Urges Slower Train Speeds

[umtrr-author]

From the NY Times of 1/15:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/nyreg ... ds.html?hp

Fair use quote:

The union representing subway operators has advised its workers to drastically reduce their trains’ speed as they enter stations, a directive prompted by the recent deaths of two people who were shoved in front of oncoming subway trains.

[JasW]

What jumped out at me from the article is that aside from the couple of recent shoving deaths, roughly one person a week dies on the tracks. Apparently suicides.

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone: I heard about this directive today and I agree that train speeds being lowered will cause delays...

What I found interesting about the recent two high-profile pushing deaths is that no one mentioned how the Train Operators
of both trains handled those traumatic incidents...It almost seems to me like the Media thinks that subway trains operate themselves...

These incidents may be the time for NYCT to look into platform gates and the advertising deal and offer to supply them to
NYCT at no cost to them may be the way to go here...

The problem with some lines is using different equipment with differing door spacing-I remember reading that cities like Paris
that do use them on some lines use one equipment type...

I do feel that platform gates are useful and needed at stations with potentially dangerous overcrowding problems at times
like the 53-Lexington Avenue Station (E,M trains) on a safety standpoint...

MACTRAXX

[DaveBarraza]

Entering slowly causes longer headways and less through-put. Fewer trains mean more passengers on the platform, and things get progressively worse. Beginning of the end?

London uses platform doors with manual train operation, it works, but the door spacing does need to be consistent between your car classes. Paris RATP has data showing platform screen doors actually improve through-put, by lessening dwell times. NYCT needs to pursue this technology STAT.

[lirr42]

The problem with some lines is using different equipment with differing door spacing-I remember reading that cities like Paris
that do use them on some lines use one equipment type...

I believe the door spacing is fairly similar across the fleet. A division (numbered lines*) cars all have 3 doors on each side and are the same length, and B division (lettered lines*) cars all have 4 doors and are of similar length. And the doors more or less line up across equipment series, so with the exception of Queensboro Plaza, you could pretty much install doors on platforms according to division and get away with it pretty well.

Plus equipment is fairly captive to particular lines, i.e. R62A's go on the 1, 7, and 0* lines, R142's on the (2)(4)(5), R142A on the (4)(6), R32 on the (C) and the (H) of late, R142's on the (L), and so on.


*the 42nd street shuttle is often internally referred to as the 0 train, as it uses the same equipment specs as the other A division lines, similarly, the Franklin Av Shuttle is deemed S and Rockaway Park Shuttle is deemed H (both pre- and post-Sandy) as they fit in with the B division lines.

[lirr42]

Entering slowly causes longer headways and less through-put. Fewer trains mean more passengers on the platform, and things get progressively worse. Beginning of the end?

Precisely, slower trains means longer gaps, which means more people waiting on the platform, which means more crowded platforms, which means more pushing and shoving, and will ultimately lead to the same/more people falling/getting pushed/shoved onto the tracks. So delays will increase and compound and there will be no less incidents of this like. Great idea, hunh?

London uses platform doors with manual train operation, it works, but the door spacing does need to be consistent between your car classes. Paris RATP has data showing platform screen doors actually improve through-put, by lessening dwell times. NYCT needs to pursue this technology STAT.

London only uses platform doors on a small handful of stations (primarily the Jubilee line). While I think NYCT should move in this direction, It'll cost an awful lot of money to retrofit platform doors on well over 1,000 platform edges across the system. We'd have to do something like MACTRAXX's advertising idea to get anything like this moving.

And unfortunately, if a person has made the decision to end his or her life by way of train, coming into the station at 3 m.p.h. isn't going to stop him or her. They'll just wait longer. Maybe we should be looking into better suicide prevention services or the like instead?

[lirr42]

Just another quick thought as an alternative: maybe they could devise some sort of sensor system that would sense when a person has fallen/jumped onto the tracks and could change the 3-4 signals leading up to the station to red and possibly stop/trip an approaching train until things are sorted out.

[truck6018]

The biggest problem with this directive is where it's coming from. The TWU has no say in operations. They are nothing more than a labor organization. The train operators work for the MTA. Any operations issues have to come from them.

[railfan365]

To the post that states that all 4 doors on B-division trains line up in the same paces against the platform - not so. I've been there to see that he doors on 75 foot R-46's and R-168's line up differently than the doors on the 60 footers.

[DaveBarraza]

To the post that states that all 4 doors on B-division trains line up in the same paces against the platform - not so. I've been there to see that he doors on 75 foot R-46's and R-168's line up differently than the doors on the 60 footers.

Correct. When they re-opened Canal Bridge a few years back, it tuned out they had installed a railing that blocked doors on 75's but no 60's.

[Head-end View]

There are two reasons that partitions/platform doors are not likely to happen anytime soon. 1) They do not have the huge amount of funding necessary, and 2) on the "B" Division, equipment is not captive to a specific line, and different car types sometimes run on different lines than usual. The TA needs to have that operational flexibility. It might be possible someday, when all the 75 foot cars are retired, if the whole fleet was 60 ft. cars, but there would still be the prohibitive cost issue.

[spidey3]

Sorry, but I think this whole discussion is silly.

It may seem callous, but given that pushing incidents are a tiny fraction of platform falls, the fact of the matter is the following:
1) People should know not to stand near the edge of the platform
2) People shouldn't get so drunk / high that they stumble over the edge
3) People should look where they are going

Bottom line: To spend millions of dollars preparing for people's stupidity is folly.

[BobLI]

If you look at the huge amount of people that use the subway every year, 1,640,434,672 in 2011, the amount of deaths although tragic is miniscule.
Most of the fataltities are suicides. The cost would be staggering for gates/doors! The politicians need to use some common sense and not shoot from the hip on this issue.

[keithsy]

I heard. The Union sounds like Management. In fact, on my Brighton Line, many trains are operated with unnecessary caution. Crews tell me they are afraid of "suicidal customers."

To you train crews:
If you are afraid of these so-called "customers," then look for another line of work. Passenger fatalities come with the territory.

[keithsy]

From the NY Times of 1/15:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/nyreg ... ds.html?hp

Fair use quote:

The union representing subway operators has advised its workers to drastically reduce their trains’ speed as they enter stations, a directive prompted by the recent deaths of two people who were shoved in front of oncoming subway trains.

As if we need more delays and longer rides, along with the stupid announcements.