Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

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  by EuroStar
 
The N and the Q finally made it across the Manhattan Bridge tonight. Great job MTA! Many thanks to all the people who worked tirelessly to restore our subway system!
  by farecard
 
Kamen Rider wrote:the system is fed through the local substations, each of which has a set area that it feeds power to.
So how many traction power stations are there? If the one feeding [area] goes down; is any train along [area] trapped until that power station is back up?

That is quite different than WMATA; they have ~50 traction stations, fed from 13KV in MD/DC [PEPCO], and from VEPCO, 13KV or 44 KV. Each station is 7 or 9 MW capacity; with the 7's being upgraded. In the case of outages [...a frequent occurrence during storms here, especially out in the 'burbs...] the system still runs everywhere albeit perhaps slower/longer headways.

One issue is if too many trains are in a third-rail section being crossfed, even their static load will exceed the available tie capacity. This leads to antics such as manually opening the knife disconnects on each car at trackside, then re-energizing the third rail, moving one train out, closing the next one's disconnects, repeat....I'd never have thought the "hotel" {non-traction} demand was so high but seems so.

The worst case was likely 6 Jan 1992 when DC itself went black. There, the suburbs were feeding the core, a dicier proposition. I recall the open faregates and backup lighting, but not how fast the trains ran when I got on board. Now, every station should have generator backup so lights/elevators/faregates etc will still function.
  by Kamen Rider
 
I don't know off hand, the simple fact of the matter is they feed a specific, limited area of they system. If those substations can't get power, then whatever area they serve is shut down.

ALL of Manhattan south of about 30th street was dark. there was no power to be had at all. 5 main north south trunks, the 14th street crosstown and the BMT Nassua/Centre Street line were all deprived of power. Depending on how you count transfer stations, that's anywhere from about 55 stations to about 80 stations. When the metro lost power in the district, they didn't the local main power stations doing this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seMaLEqotUw

That's what happens when water is added to high voltage electrical equipment.

It goes BOOM.
  by farecard
 
Kamen Rider wrote:When the metro lost power in the district, they didn't the local main power stations doing this...
Not sure what you mean here?

WMATA did NOT close; it was the height of afternoon rush hour, and platforms/trains were already packed. I waited a ~hour and then went home.


,
  by Kamen Rider
 
Holding my toung.... holding my toung....

That video is of a power plant, a city power generating station, self destricting, disabling the power grid. As I've tried explained before, and i will say again in as simple terms as I can;

This was unlike anything before. You can't take what you know from your expeinces from Metro and apply it to what happened with the subway.

The subway is a completly diffrent animal.

What I was trying to say is that Downtown DC lost power, it simply lost the transmission system. New York lost the abilty to generate power for a while for the affected areas.

And they you come bouncing along with your little ideas, not listing to anyone who has acutaly had some experince with the subway and how things work in the largest, most complicated system in the country.
  by farecard
 
Kamen Rider wrote: What I was trying to say is that Downtown DC lost power, it simply lost the transmission system. New York lost the abilty to generate power for a while for the affected areas.

And they you come bouncing along with your little ideas, not listing to anyone who has acutaly had some experince with the subway and how things work in the largest, most complicated system in the country.
Actually, the 1992 outage was caused when the closest generation plant to DC, the Potomac River Generating Station in Alexandria, dropped off line after 335 MW of its load was suddenly shed. It could have recovered but its frequency meter was stuck, so staff was unknowingly doing the wrong things. {There is an interesting FERC report....]

And as an EE, I have to say it matters little to the end user if they are in the dark because a generation facility went off-line, or the transmission lines closer to you fault. In either case, you are immediately in the dark, listening to the silence....

I welcome your extensive knowledge of NYCTA facilities; can you please tell me how many traction power stations were in the afflicted area, what their lost output was, and where the "phase gaps" so to say are in each third rail system?
  by Disney Guy
 
I saw a map showing the subway lines that were running and there was a comment on the map about ten minute headway. Was this on all lines or are some lines back to full rush hour service?

Seems like they should have started school later, after morning rush hour, so the children are not competing for space with folks going to work, on less frequent subway trains.
farecard wrote:
Kamen Rider wrote:When the metro lost power in the district, they didn't the local main power stations doing this...
Not sure what you mean here?
I don't comprehend that sentence either.

If a generator is lost then power can be brought in from elsewhere in the state or even from neighboring states, that is one of the functions of "the grid". But here the distribution lines out into (under) the streets, and the station where power from other sources is brought in, need to be inspected for flood damage first.
  by Kamen Rider
 
sentance ending in ... followed by a link means click the link.
Last edited by Kamen Rider on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by BobLI
 
Whats the status of the "A" line in the Rockaways? The MTA says service is suspended but I dont see any alternate ways to get to a subway unless you want to take the Q113 bus. That line just puts you in Jamaica and if you want to get to Brooklyn its a longgggggg trip!

Are the rumors true that the swing bridge has suffered major damage? Are there any pictures of the recovery effort on the tracks on the bay?

Thanks for all replies.
  by lirr42
 
Service remains suspended on the (A) and (H) trains in the Rockaways due to damage in Broad Channel. Cumomo said in a press conference that they plan on trucking cars over to the Rockaways to run (H) shuttle service from Far Rockaway to Rockaway Parkway via the lower leg of the Hammels Wye. Then they're going to bus people into Queens (either to Howard Beech or Rockaway Park, I presume). But no word from the MTA on that though.
  by mikey cruz
 
Hey bob no word on what actually happened to the bridge but here's some pics of the flats. as you can see there's a bridge under the all the dirt that alot of people didn't know about I think............................including me LOL.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/page11/
  by BobLI
 
Mikey,

Thats the 3 track section that runs from Broad Channel and ends just before the North channel bridge and I've never seen a bridge on that track! It was one long island from Broad Channel to the North bridge.

i'm wondering if that was a long neglected lead from the bay to the pond thats next to the tracks? It looks like an old fill that got opened by the storm! Great pictures and thanks!
  by mikey cruz
 
Hey BOB that's exactly what looks like happened, of course the 3rd track is newer so it's kinda just hangin there. I just found out that NYCT is gonna transfer those R32's by truck startin today or tomorrow and the staging area is somewhere between Rockaway Blvd & Aquaduct race track then to the Walbaums parkin lot at far rock.
  by mikey cruz
 
http://www.farrockaway.com/carol/lirrpix.html

look at the first pic, I guess NYCT just dumped a * ton of dirt after rebuilding the old bridge with a concrete deck? or did they just dump the dirt over the remaining parts of the bridge and lay track over it?
  by mikey cruz
 
If anyone wants to get some pics those subway cars are on Cross Bay Blvd right now getting flat bedded to the Rockaway's.
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