FL9 F-10 Discussion: Metro-North / CtDOT / Amtrak

[GirlOnTheTrain]

Metro-North engineers run cab cars on that same track every day.

Mind you my experience is limited to the few engineers I know, but it seems like most don't really care - unless you're talking about the death-trap on wheels Metroliner cabs with the doors welded shut.

[mtuandrew]

What is different safety-wise about the Metroliners versus other cab cars? I’ve seen a few opinions about them being relatively unsafe.

[8th Notch]

Mr Norman over 27 000 push pull moves worldwide each day , and most at far higher speeds than 110 mph. and they have crossings in rest of world too.
its either cab cars or ride a bus , with same safety risk but many more road crossings. your choice, train or deluxe motor coach operations ?

My commuter days are over for the most part but I never had any issues with the cab cars and I don’t understand why some people have a problem. When you look at how long they have been in operation vs the number of accidents where people were seriously injured or killed, the numbers are very low.

[D40LF]

What is different safety-wise about the Metroliners versus other cab cars? I’ve seen a few opinions about them being relatively unsafe.

I'm no expert, but I don't think they would fare that well in a crash. It appears that they don't have much crash protection above the frame, and they certainly wouldn't meet current FRA standards. Maybe others know more about this. Luckily none of them have ever hit a dump truck, because that wouldn't be pretty...

[Railjunkie]

Mr. Junkie, how will YOU feel about operating a train from a cab car? I realize it's a case of "not all that many", but there are still some Grade X-ings along your Hudson Division.

Its kinda like this... I have just enough time to avoid having to qualify. Next stop SYR or a yard job. However there are a few that maybe thinking the same so maybe Ill get a chance to renew an old territory or getting qualified into GCT anyway.

Albany Engineers have fought the idea of cab cars for years now there is no choice. Personally the idea of 90 to110mph and 15 protected grade crossings plus numerous private just on Amtrak with nothing but a little sheet metal between me and what ever is not comforting. I have had the chance to take two dual modes OOS hitting trees through the years. Ive hit the floor and been covered in glass, seen plows so badly bent under the locomotive they had to cut it just to move the train. Tree limbs that have punched holes in the car body. Ive walked away shaken with some small bumps but I walked away. Dont know how I would have fared in a cab car.

[DutchRailnut]

A cab car has same protection as locomotive , ever look at door frame at that front door ?? its called a collision post , it also has has corner post if car is build past a certain date.
In a locomotive your trapped in cab, running back is not option cause there is were you get burned by either fuel or scalding water.
on a cab car (other than metro liners) you can run away from cab or dive clear of cab.
I have ran cab cars for 30 years and never have felt unsafe , granted the speeds were lower, but the amount of idiots in cars is higher .

even locomotives get boo boo's as can be viewed in this 17 mph collision .

[Gilbert B Norman]

Volks, PLEASE let us not have a re-run of the Locomotive Engineer/Motorman tiff that occurred around here, for I will hold that my immediate posting unintentionally renewed it.

[Railjunkie]

A cab car has same protection as locomotive , ever look at door frame at that front door ?? its called a collision post , it also has has corner post if car is build past a certain date.
In a locomotive your trapped in cab, running back is not option cause there is were you get burned by either fuel or scalding water.
on a cab car (other than metro liners) you can run away from cab or dive clear of cab.
I have ran cab cars for 30 years and never have felt unsafe , granted the speeds were lower, but the amount of idiots in cars is higher .

even locomotives get boo boo's as can be viewed in this 17 mph collision .

Guess its what you grow up with.

[D40LF]

A cab car has same protection as locomotive , ever look at door frame at that front door ?? its called a collision post , it also has has corner post if car is build past a certain date.
In a locomotive your trapped in cab, running back is not option cause there is were you get burned by either fuel or scalding water.
on a cab car (other than metro liners) you can run away from cab or dive clear of cab.
I have ran cab cars for 30 years and never have felt unsafe , granted the speeds were lower, but the amount of idiots in cars is higher .

even locomotives get boo boo's as can be viewed in this 17 mph collision .

The MARC IIA cab cars were built before crash standards became more stringent in 1999. It is also worth noting that FL9s were built before any crash standards for locomotives existed, so if anything they are just sheet metal, with a nose at the front.

Here are two grade crossing accidents, one involving a South Shore Line EMU (which is structurally similar to the MARC cab cars), and one involving a MARC car.
https://goo.gl/images/3BhKSd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Hit a truck carrying steel coil, killing 3)
https://goo.gl/images/Fbsw2t" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So they might be worse than a locomotive, but how often do serious grade crossing crashes happen around New York anyway? I think thats the better question to ask when assessing these risks.

[Noel Weaver]

FWIW I would feel much more comfortable in the cab of an FL-9 than in the front end cab of a cab car no matter what. Having said that, here is what I have heard from a good source:
The six FL-9's will be leaving New Haven very soon for Rensselaer. Five of them will be made servicable and the sixth is still a question but they will try to restore that one as well. My source says full power and 480 as well. As for the cab cars, they will need them too and the trains will be made up cab car, locomotive followed by the rest of the train. It will look hideous to say the least. Apparently they have put in a switch in the cab cars to be able to run the DM on electric or diesel. No matter what happens train watching on the Hudson Line will be different this summer.
Noel Weaver

[mtuandrew]

So to get this straight,

MARC IIB - P32 - Amfleets - FL9 ?

[DutchRailnut]

no, no engine behind the cars as it blocks emergency egress for passengers.

[Hudson2640]

With the cab car in front of the engine, the train will have to go around the loop at GCT. If that's the case any reason why they can't put the cab car behind the coaches and operate in push mode?

If the FL9s do end being used this summer, what are the chances of them sticking around afterwards as NPCUs? It would allow Amtrak to stop wying trains in Albany and other terminals. If/when LAB gets replaced or some other situation occurs where the wye can't be used, the FL9s might be a decent insurance policy until the state orders their new locomotives.

[mtuandrew]

no, no engine behind the cars as it blocks emergency egress for passengers.

Okay, that makes far more sense:

FL9 - P32 - Amfleets - MARC IIB cab

No loop needed, unless Metro-North desires it. (Makes me look forward to Amtrak buying modern cab cars!)

[blockline4180]

no, no engine behind the cars as it blocks emergency egress for passengers.

Okay, that makes far more sense:

FL9 - P32 - Amfleets - MARC IIB cab

No loop needed, unless Metro-North desires it. (Makes me look forward to Amtrak buying modern cab cars!)

Depends on how many cab cars are available... If the FL9s end up running it will be FL9- P32- Coaches - MARC cab as u say, but if not enough MARC II B are available then they will have to loop the train.. I don't think you can have a P32 behind the cab car...... They may also do FL9-Amfleets - P32, or just P32-Amfleets- MARC IIB and no FL9, but are enough MARC coaches available for every train? Hope I didn't confuse you!