Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

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  by R36 Combine Coach
 
I wouldn't be suprised if they go out to Frontier in Ohio, which also did MNCR's M-1As, ACMUs, Comet I-As and also PATH's PA1/PA2/PA3s and K-cars.

It seems like those 250 subway cars are the R44s.
  by Steamboat Willie
 
They should really start with the triplets, more importantly the M4's. Those are real junk for C&E on the train.
  by GP40 6694
 
Yup.

According to the State Rail Plan, the M4's and M6's are breaking down a lot more than the M2's.
  by Tadman
 
I'm not in the know about this particular situation, but often when federal funding is involved for new cars, there is also an "earliest retirement date" as well as a selection of what equipment gets retired.

Such is the case with Metra 610 and 614, which, due to a capital overhaul I believe, are still running after their sisters units were retired. Another example is the CTA 2200's - they had to get a legislative variation to operate on a new route.

This may be the case with the M4/M6 equipment. Either the series were not selected for retirement or cannot leave the property yet, meaning that despite their unreliability the first cars to go are M2.

But this all should very clearly be labeled speculation on my part. I do not have any evidence to back it up, just an educated guess.
  by GP40 6694
 
In that case though, couldn't they just keep the M2's running and let the M4/6 cars sit in a yard somewhere?
  by DutchRailnut
 
No , you can't tell Hartford the M-2's are shot and then keep them running and shop M-4 and M-6.
Unless as profecionals you want to loose face with your funding source.
  by Jeff Smith
 
From what I have read, they are not going to be retiring any cars, whether M2, 4, or 6, until the fleet is built up to a minimum size. Once they reach a certain threshhold of seats is when they start retiring. Since CT seems intent on getting the max order, 342, I think, (not 380; 342 was authorized in the original legislation, although the order allowed for 380 but add'l legislation would be required - look back in the thread for a link to the CDOT memo I posted), CDOT and NY could conceivably retire some of those smaller fleets of M4's and 6's.

I would think, though, they'd keep a reserve, similar to the M3a reserve (there was supposed to be an M1a reserve for Yankee service, but they decided it wasn't worth it). These cars can also be used across EOH divisions. That was also a plan for the 4400 washboards, but as Noel has posted on here, they stored them badly and did not maintain them.
  by GP40 6694
 
DutchRailnut wrote:No , you can't tell Hartford the M-2's are shot and then keep them running and shop M-4 and M-6.
Unless as profecionals you want to loose face with your funding source.
The numbers show that they are performing better however. Obviously the goal is that the M8's are going to be a lot better than that, but so long as the older cars are around, why not keep the ones that work the best?
  by DutchRailnut
 
Due to age, they can not retire cars that are half the age of the M-2's
the legislature only gave ok to replace the M-2's, not any other cars.
If M-4's and M-6's perform worse the question should be why, not on how to sideline them.
Besides we will still need someting to run with the M-2 bar cars till they get replacements.
Now Alex instead of constantly knowing better, could you please attend a Commuter Council Meeting and try to explain your wisdom there ???
  by GP40 6694
 
DutchRailnut wrote: If M-4's and M-6's perform worse the question should be why, not on how to sideline them.
They did the rebuild program on the M2's. If anything, it's just proof that they did a good job rebuilding them. Might as well take advantage of that.
  by 7express
 
They should do the triplets first as Steamboat said.

If one car in the set has a problem you have to take the whole set OOS.
  by Travelsonic
 
Just out of curiosity, would it be possible - or feasible - to just strip the M4s and M6s of their dummy cars and run them as pairs?

Then again, what havoc would that do to some of their systems? And what WOULD be done [COULD be done?] with the left over D cars?
  by DutchRailnut
 
anything is possible, but it won't happen, politicaly they can not retire M-4 and M-6.
The triplets will keep on running with M-2 bar cars till all M-8's are on line and even then the M-4 and M-6 will be kept as spare for a while.
still not all M-8's required are ordered and funded.
and Again only cars to be scrapped are M-2's despite what railfans want.
  by Clean Cab
 
An educated guess is the first M2s to go will be the non-CSR pairs as soon as enough M8s are in service. Then the M2 CSR cars will go, except for the bar cars. Depending on what the final total of M8s is, all M4s will be retired. M2 bar cars will be retired once M8 bar cars are put into service. Then the M6s will be retired by (my guess) 2018 when they will have been in service for 25 years.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Okay, I know I'm jumping the gun JUST A BIT, but with the recent snowstorms, related breakdowns, and (hopefully) imminent introduction of the M-8's, I thought I'd start this thread to track retirements, in- and out-of-service car counts, prioritizing repairs and cannibalizing remaining pairs, etc. I think there is a link to an article in here somewhere else on this as well concerning the fact that MNRR will have to pay for the M-2s to be scrapped vs. selling them for scrap (environmental issues; these ain't Redbirds).

Here's the snow article(s): http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Rail ... 951211.php
On the eve of the winter's third big snowstorm, nearly a quarter of the state's weather-vulnerable M-2 rail car fleet has been knocked out of service by snow-related problems, raising concerns about having enough rolling stock to provide service through the cold months, Metro-North Railroad President Howard Permut said.

...

Some 172 of the 228 M-2 cars serving the MTA's New Haven Line are in running order, fewer than the 186 typically needed to avoid running diesel locomotives.

The state plans to begin phasing out the worn-out M-2 cars gradually as the state's new fleet of M-8 rail cars go into service.
Another M-2 article circa the first snow-storm: http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/ ... 933008.php
Indeed commuters were reminded of the shortcomings of the M-2 rail cars when service was suspended because of the recent blizzard and about 30 cars had to be sidelined. Even a moderate snowfall can knock out or severely delay New Haven Line service.

"When the snow is of the fine, granular variety, basically what happens is that the flakes get sucked into the electronics, it melts and freezes, and then you have a block of ice where you used to have a transformer," said Jim Cameron, chairman of the Connecticut Metro-North Commuters Council. "Even on a good day, 10 or 15 percent of the fleet is in the shop."
Here's the original scrap thread: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... ilit=scrap

Here's the original CT Post article on scrapping from that thread: http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Next ... 866796.php
With the first of the state's new Kawasaki M-8 rail cars expected in service within weeks, Metro-North Railroad and state transportation officials will soon choose a company to gradually scrap the state's aged fleet of 235 M-2 cars, officials said.

Metro-North plans to begin retiring the cars this winter, beginning with 89 that were not revamped as part of a $75 million Critical Systems Replacement program begun in 2004 to keep cars running past their expected 30- to 35-year life span, spokeswoman Marjorie Anders said. The first General Electric-built M-2s were delivered in 1973.

The pending contract will also include disposal of more than 250 worn out New York City subway cars, Anders said.

"We're in the process of reviewing proposals from companies interested in scrapping the old cars," she said. "We expect to award the contract in January and begin scrapping M-2 cars early next year."
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