Danbury Branch - History, Electrification, Studies

[jonnhrr]

Thanks for the link . I had searched and did not find this for some reason.

Jon

[RAY]

I recently noted with interest that Connecticut state-sponsored studies will shortly tackle the issue of possible re-electrification of the Danbury branch, with the further possibility of even extending electrification beyond Danbury via the Housatonic Railroad to New Milford. One of the economic "challenges" mentioned was the need to spend big bucks to elevate quite a few highway overpasses in order to afford adequate clearances for the catenary.

My question is this: wouldn't electrification utilizing third-rail technology be a much more practical and cheaper alternative than overhead wires? (The relatively new installation between North White Plains and Brewster seems to work just fine.) Highway overpasses, therefore, would have no need to be raised to provide extra clearance for catenary. Further, all New Haven line electric MU's are capable of utilizing both third-rail and overhead power sources, so minimal new rolling stock would be needed. Inefficient operation of third-rail at high speed is no issue inasmuch as speed limits between Norwalk and Danbury and New Milford, to the best of my recollection, have never been higher than 60 MPH.

[DutchRailnut]

Third rail is not allowed in Connecticut both by Electric Code and State law.
And no third rail is not cheaper, a Branch like Danbury would as it is now need 14 substations to feed the third rail, the max that DC will travel is about one mile before losses will be below what the trains will work of.

Any electrification of single track, specialy in territory with tree's will only jepardize the performance of that Branch.
With Diesel trains if one breaks down the next can move it to a siding.
With Electric trains if power fails, everything is dead.
By time a diesel locomotive is goten from Stamford the delays will be staggering.
Believe me with 26 years in Engineers seat, Diesel is best thing to happen to Danbury and Waterbury branches.

[Wayside Observer]

3rd rail costs more to operate than AC, plain and simple. I doubt that I will live to see the Danbury Branch with overhead catenary, as much as I'd like to see it happen.

[Noel Weaver]

As I have said before, I remember the AC electrification on the Danbury Branch and it worked and worked very well thank you. It should never have been removed but now that it
has and it's been gone for a long time, I do not think it is practical nor needed to restore it. Today's equipment (both locomotives and cars) is a big improvement over the
equipment that the New Haven operated on that line after the power was shut off.
Noel Weaver

[Eliphaz]

I can't speak to operational pros and cons, but the 'big picture' improvement of electrification over diesel is in the ability to use energy sources other than diesel fuel. It was less than two years ago the price of diesel fuel passed $5, that can happen at any time. The electricity market is much more diverse and manageable.

[Wayside Observer]

I guess Noel Weaver would know better than any of us how well it worked. The problem isn't that it'd be unworkable, rather the immense cost of putting the overhead wire back up. I also agree with Mr. Weaver that the wire should never have been taken down.

[DutchRailnut]

As I have said before, I remember the AC electrification on the Danbury Branch and it worked and worked very well thank you. It should never have been removed but now that it
has and it's been gone for a long time, I do not think it is practical nor needed to restore it. Today's equipment (both locomotives and cars) is a big improvement over the
equipment that the New Haven operated on that line after the power was shut off.
Noel Weaver

Noel in your time there was half the trees that are there now, and because of treehuggers we can't cut them back,electric operation would be disastrous now.
In your days there was both a switcher in Danbury and one working dock yard area, now closest rescue diesel would take an hour just to leave Stamford and get to Norwalk.
The Branch is so overgrown the profile of trains is visible in the overgrowth.

[Northeastern292]

I can't speak to operational pros and cons, but the 'big picture' improvement of electrification over diesel is in the ability to use energy sources other than diesel fuel. It was less than two years ago the price of diesel fuel passed $5, that can happen at any time. The electricity market is much more diverse and manageable.

True. And there's fewer Genesis and Shorliner cars, so if the Danbury branch is electrified, you could keep around the better running M2, M4 and M6's for the Danbury service until enough M8's come in.

[DutchRailnut]

If they electrified we would probably be running M10's to Danbury, it would take 20 years of lawsuits by Nimbies to get to construction phase.
you think anyone near the tracks will be jubilant about 12.5 Kv wires near their house and kids ?

[metrony]

The Upper Hudson Line has a better chance of being electrified and that's not saying much. I don't see Metro-North or the MTA spending any money on making any of their diesel lines/branches electrified. It's extremely too expensive to begin with.

What will be the positive reasons for electrify Danbury branch anyway? Barely any time will be saved. Time the Genesis are done and finish with they will have better more fuel efficient diesel engines on the market.

[Eliphaz]

it puts the NIMBYs in a bind, because electrification would reduce diesel particulate emissions, which as we all know is very very bad for -
wait it ... THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

[DutchRailnut]

treehuggers fail to see that producing each kilowatt produces about equal polution, its just where that the emisions are that changes.
both the P32 and BL20's are considered clean power by EPA, so enough with the treehugging.
your statements are just not backed in enviromental studies by both CDOT and EPA.

[Penn Central]

Never mind Third Rail or electrification, look how long it has taken to install CTC.

[Ridgefielder]

If they electrified we would probably be running M10's to Danbury, it would take 20 years of lawsuits by Nimbies to get to construction phase.
you think anyone near the tracks will be jubilant about 12.5 Kv wires near their house and kids ?

Well there already is a high voltage line next to the tracks from what, just past Merritt 7 to approximately Georgetown? So I don't think the NIMBY crowd there, at least, would have much grounds for a lawsuit. Agreed though on the opposition-- though given what happened with Super 7 I'd ballpark it at closer to 40 years than 20!

I agree with Noel, Wayside and others here, though. Re-electrifying the line today would be a waste of money given the minimal increase in speed gained.

Think it's important to remember the reason the line was electrified back in the 1920's had little to do with operating conditions on the line itself but was the result of a desire on the part of NYNH&H management to eliminate a Stamford or Norwalk engine change for GCT-Danbury/Pittsfield through trains,