Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  • 284 posts
  • 1
  • 15
  • 16
  • 17
  • 18
  • 19
  by DutchRailnut
so its a wish list, but no plan yet.

TOWN OF WALLKILL - A rail connection to Stewart International Airport and a double track all along the Port Jervis Line are key items on a wish list that Howard Permut, president of the Metro-North Railroad, shared Thursday with the Orange County Chamber of Commerce.

Permut, president of the railroad since 2008, addressed about 100 Chamber members during a breakfast at Kuhl's Highland House, outlining not only his goals, but also a look back at the recovery from damage inflicted by Hurricane Irene.

etc etc at above link.
  by SecaucusJunction
From what the quotes were at the meeting, the double tracking of the line seems to be more close to reality than the Stewart Link. I would agree that if Stewart really needs a rail link, they should show that they are actually going to be a viable airport in the future. So far, they have not done that. I understand it is probably somewhat due to a slow economy, but it seems as though they've actually gone backward over the past few years.

If I remember correctly, the plan was for a rail station at Stewart Airport but an even bigger one in the town of Newburgh for the local residents. I believe this was "projected" to gain over 3000 riders per day... more than double any other station on the entire line. Maybe this was what Permut was talking about with a yard along the line somewhere between Suffern and Port Jervis. The combination of the two stations would probablly make the project more viable than betting the whole thing on Stewart Airport. Though they'd have to make service attractive or people will just cross the river to go to Beacon.
Last edited by SecaucusJunction on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by DutchRailnut
The railroad president has little power on decisions in this matter, its the MTA board and availability of funding.
  by northjerseybuff
wasn't there some sort of open house a few years ago on this project?
What was talked about at the Orange County Chamber of Commerce meeting was some of the Long Range Planning projects on the table, Stewart Rail Link, Mid Range Yard and double tracking. As Dutch says, nothing solid, but if the opportunity arises - funding- it is something that would be pushed forward.
  by Jeff Smith
northjerseybuff wrote:wasn't there some sort of open house a few years ago on this project?

Pardon my moderation; merged this into the older topic.
  by Jeff Smith
Brief, "fair-use" quote from article linked on prior page:
Looking ahead, Permut spoke of the urgency to obtain land needed to create rail service between Stewart and Salisbury Mills. If the land goes to other development, Permut said, “the region will lose forever a connection to Stewart Airport. With it, we'd be able to bring people to Stewart from Orange County, Rockland County, New Jersey and New York City.”

Building a second track along the Port Jervis line would effectively transform a one-way rail line into a two-way one. There's already sufficient space on railroad property to add a second track, which Permut called “unusually advantageous.”

The installation of a new signal system that will increase the ability to run more trains is under way, but its potential is limited by the availability of only a single track.
Projects cost lots of money

A third train yard is also needed to supplement ones in Port Jervis and Suffern, Permut said. The approximate 60-mile distance between the two was acceptable when it was a freight line. The ideal distance is more like 30 miles for passenger service to dispatch repair crews and trains more quickly and economically.
I remember looking at some NYS rail maps. I always thought there was some trackage from along the PJ line that ran up to Newburgh. I'm pretty sure there's an industrial track out of Newburgh; abandoned track in the middle, and then an industrial track off of the PJ. This would have the advantage of avoiding CSX' West Shore line and bringing service up there. Can't remember if they were thinking of this track or not.
  by SecaucusJunction
I know there is a line through the Salisbury Mills area marked as CSX so I assume it connects to the River Line but I don't think it connects with the old Erie anywhere. I may be wrong. I think a Newburgh town station in addition to the Stewart Link would be the only way this project would be a good idea. They'd have to build from scratch north of Salisbury but I think there is quite a bit of vacant land up there. And as I've said, service would have to be good enough to keep people from crossing the River...
  by DanD3815
That CSX line is the newburgh industrial and branches off right before the newburgh waterfront. The local from Kingston used to service it but as far as I know the only remaining customer on that line eventually dropped off. The line does not connect with the Port Jervis line at all.
  by Jeff Smith
MNRR is moving forward without PATH, and while primarily concentrating on Port Jervis upgrades, is not ruling out Stewart.

For discussion on PJ WOH Study, service, upgrades, etc: Port Jervis Line Service, PJ WOH Study, Work, Status

West of Hudson transit access study enters second phase
TOWN OF NEWBURGH – Metro-North Railroad will hold an open house in the Town of Newburgh on June 12 to present the latest information on the West of Hudson Regional Transit Access Alternatives Analysis Study. Phase two is about to commence. The session will be held from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. at the Hilton Garden Inn at 15 Crossroads Court.


Among the options being explored are further improvements to the Port Jervis Line, a possible rail link from Stewart Airport to the Salisbury Mills train station and a bus route from the airport.
No Stewart rail link on horizon
The study, however, is now a solo act on Metro-North's part and not expected to result in a recommendation for immediate construction of a rail link between the airport and the Port Jervis line, in the vicinity of the Salisbury Mills station.

"We are not abandoning the idea of a rail link to Stewart, but design and construction of such a link is a much longer-term endeavor than this study," said Marjorie Anders, a Metro-North spokeswoman.


The railroad prevailed upon the Port Authority to share the $5.4 million cost of the study's first phase shortly after it leased the airport from the state in 2007.

The Port Authority, however, bowed out after the first phase was completed, saying express bus service that could meet specific planes offered the sort of flexibility it sought in developing the airport, without requiring more detailed environmental study.

New Windsor leery of route

Metro-North also was unable to get the Port Authority to give it property on which to build a new station, commuter parking lot and train yard in the absence of a master plan for the airport. Now it is pursuing the possibility of developing a yard in partnership with NJ Transit, which operates the Port Jervis line for Metro-North — and which has a yard at capacity in Suffern.

New Windsor Supervisor George Green, who has already been briefed by Metro-North, said the town continues to have reservations about any proposed route for a rail link that would cross the 140 acres it owns at Stewart and wants to develop as a business park.
Admin Note: Consolidating in MNRR forum and merging in some duplicate/parallel threads.
  by Albany Rider
Perhaps if there was a rail option on the planned Tappen Zee bridge, Metro North could provide better service on the West Shore. :)

  by Backshophoss
Rail on Tappen Zee Bridge is a dead issue,per the governor.
  by lilbluefoxie
JoshKarpoff wrote:
In someways, this is a chicken or the egg sort of deal. The airlines aren't going to use it unless there's sufficient customer demand and an easy way to get there.
Customers aren't going to use it unless there are airlines there that have flights to destinations they want to go to.
This airport is too far north for most people in the region to want to use. It will probably best serve northern Westchester, Putnam, Duchess, Orange, Sullivan and Ulster. These are places with heavy car ownership levels and which I don't see any convenient rail routing for most of them.
It's the same problem down on Long Island with Islip Airport. I love using Islip becasue its cleaner, less busy, the security people are friendlier, unfortunately the only carrier in there nowadays is Southwest, Delta and Continental pulled out a few years back. That's more a discussion on airlines than trains tho.

Looking on a map, theres already a Metro North station nearby, Salisbury Mills-Cornwall and on the Hudson line across the river theres nearby Beacon station. It seems like a better idea to run hourly airport shuttles timed with the trains, similar to what they have at Islip airport for the LIRR.


  by MNCRR9000
drewh wrote:
Stewart Airport is viewed by NYSDOT as a regional reliever, rather than a fourth airport for New York City.

Yeah, suuuure... we'll see how long that idea lasts once there's one-seat high-speed rail service from GCT to SWF.
High-speed service a la NY State and US Govt via MN still translates to 1 hour+ service with multiple stops from GCT.

With EWR at 20 mins, and JFK at 45 mins, who is going to opt for Stewart considering there are far less flights and no discount carriers??

Westchester residents already have HPN so they will probably not use Stewart - though grant you no rail service to HPN. Maybe this is off topic, but have there ever been plans to extend MN to HPN??

No to get off topic but with all the residential houses around HPN I highly doubht that they would approve a connection to HPN. To them a rail line would indicate that flights would possibly increase and would lead to increased noise.
  • 1
  • 15
  • 16
  • 17
  • 18
  • 19