Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

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  by Jeff Smith
 
You haven't lived til you've driven the BQE; it should be on everyone's bucket list (but only AFTER the terminal diagnosis). Of course, we all suffer from a 100% death rate for this earthly life.

As for Chuckie, well, yeah, it's like a dagger to the heart (another of his favorite sayings). "Stewart will really take off". That's like "News of the Tautalogical" per one of my favorite columnists.
  by metrony
 
umtrr-author wrote:And let's not leave out who said this: Our own Senator Schumer.

Referring to the second piece cited about, where exactly is this "Bronx Queens Expressway" to which Route 17 is being compared...

...another Journalism Fail.
Route 17/I-86 is only really bad during summer weekends/holidays and afternoon rush hour. The BQE is just bad 24/7/365. :-)
  by Jeff Smith
 
News on the meeting:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100721/N ... maybe-both
Direct Bus
What is it? Buses would run directly to and from Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan; the George Washington Bridge Bus Terminal in the Bronx; and Hackensack, N.J., and Stewart airport. Bus Rapid Transit lanes would be built on the Thruway from Suffern to Newburgh.
Travel time to New York City: 97 to 115 minutes depending on location; BRT would be 15 minutes shorter.
Cost to build: $75 million to $91 million for buses; $2 billion for BRT lanes
Operating, maintenance cost: $5 million to $7 million a year
Ridership: Up to 700 daily airport trips and up to 1,200 daily commuter trips
Major impacts: 30 miles of pavement to build exclusive BRT lanes; reconstruct entire Thruway north of Suffern to Newburgh, including widening 10 out of 12 bridges and 19 overpasses; and relocating 2 miles of Thruway in Orange County

Direct train
What is it? Trains on the existing Main/Bergen and Port Jervis lines would connect with a new rail spur built at Salisbury Mills station to take riders directly to the airport.
Travel time to New York City: 88 to 99 minutes
Cost to build: $610 million to $840 million
Operating and maintenance cost: $26 million a year
Ridership: Up to 1,100 daily airport trips and up to 3,700 daily commuter trips
Major impacts: Compatibility with new Stewart terminal; right-of-way and environmental issues; capacity issues south of Suffern.

Hybrid train/bus
Port Jervis line
What is it? Travelers would take the train on the Port Jervis line to the Salisbury Mills station in Orange County and take a shuttle bus to the airport via local roads or newly-built Bus Rapid Transit lanes
Travel time to New York City: 97 to 102 minutes or 92 minutes for the BRT version
Cost to build: $3 million to $17 million for bus version or $118 million to $146 million for BRT version
Operating, maintenance cost: $1 million a year
Ridership: Up to 800 daily airport trip and up to 100 daily commuter trips
Major impacts: Bus version is considered unreliable on local roads

Hybrid train/bus
Hudson line
What is it? Travelers would take the train on the Hudson line to the Beacon station in Dutchess County and take a shuttle bus to Stewart
Travel time to New York City: 104 to 111 minutes
Cost to build: $6- to $18-million
Operating, maintenance cost: $800,000 to $2 million
Ridership: Up to 680 daily airport trip and up to 400 daily commuter trips
Major impacts: Some travel time variability due to I-84 congestion

FIFTH OPTION
The fifth option is "no-build," which must be included by law.

LEARN MORE
West of Hudson Regional Transit Access Study: www.mta.info/mta/planning/whrtas
  by SecaucusJunction
 
I never really thought of the airport station doubling for a Newburgh resident commuter station. If that is the case, and they can get the numbers of commuters they are hoping for, the rail option might be the best alternative. A rail/bus hybrid might be the cheaper way to do it, but I don't think you'll get nearly as many passengers that way... especially for commuting. Nobody is going to go on a 2 hour bus ride to an airport...
  by Jeff Smith
 
Rail is definitely better than the BRT option; I don't see any reason you need to rebuild the entire thruway, including overpasses and bridges, to accomodate that. I'm not sure why they can't use the old freight ROW between NS and CSX, but perhaps they are? I think hybrid would bring the best bang for the buck, but nothing beats a "one-seat" ride, even if there's a transfer at Hoboken, SJ, or perhaps you run over the TZB.
  by DutchRailnut
 
We are still assuming that Newburg will get more planes, right now the airport is just about dead.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Absolutely right, Dutch. I don't know who flys in there, but 500,000 works out to about 1,500 a day give or take, and if you got 10% of that amount, that's only 150. Now, if they had some of the point to point airlines, not the old guard, they might get that number up. There's clearly no room for growth at EWR or LGA, and HPN will never expand due to the folks in Old Greenwich. The commuting numbers are interesting; will folks drive out to a Stewart station from Newburgh and environs instead of going to Beacon? I guess.
  by theozno
 
Sarge wrote:Absolutely right, Dutch. I don't know who flys in there, but 500,000 works out to about 1,500 a day give or take, and if you got 10% of that amount, that's only 150. Now, if they had some of the point to point airlines, not the old guard, they might get that number up. There's clearly no room for growth at EWR or LGA, and HPN will never expand due to the folks in Old Greenwich. The commuting numbers are interesting; will folks drive out to a Stewart station from Newburgh and environs instead of going to Beacon? I guess.

I have never had any issues with the planes overhead here in old greenwich. the ones that go into HPN (white plains NY id presume) actually go ovearhead turn around Greenwich point (todds point) and have never bothered me dependent on the wind direction. outside yes you can hear them but not inside. I can;t speak for any of the other residents throughout old grenwich because the are a lot richer than I am and will get their way :(
  by SecaucusJunction
 
I also think that HPN technically uses NYC air space... so they are limited to the number of flights they can have. SWF is outside this area.
  by Jeff Smith
 
An unfavorable opinion:

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.d ... -1/SITEMAP
If this were a case study in a business school, the professor would require evidence that there is or will be a mass requiring mass transit. Studies that seemed wise when projections of passengers were up to 7 million seem silly when the airport might see 400,000 passengers this year, assuming that things go well, with not much growth anytime soon.

Airlines are cutting back on flights and passengers are searching for bargains. Neither of those trends points toward growth at Stewart in the near or distant future.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Well, the bus to the plane is no longer needed.......

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.d ... -1/SITEMAP
Record Online wrote:STEWART AIRPORT — After three years of indifferent ridership, the state Department of Transportation will scale back its shuttle bus service between Stewart International Airport and the Metro-North Railroad station in Beacon to save money.

Jennifer Post, a DOT spokeswoman, said midday and weekend service between the airport and the station will be significantly reduced for 90 days in the coming months to better assess demand.

...

Another factor in the decision, Post said, was the DOT's inability to "successfully complete a formal written agreement" on cost-sharing with the Port Authority.

Despite a public commitment to contribute $75,000 a year toward the service, the Port Authority has never paid the DOT any money.

....

The DOT expanded the shuttle bus service in January 2008, shortly after the Port Authority acquired the lease to the airport, to accommodate a new airline named Skybus.

The Columbus, Ohio-based airline promoted Stewart as an alternative to the New York City airports for the budget-minded and soon was delivering hundreds of Manhattan-bound travelers who had no way to get there once they arrived in Newburgh.

The DOT and its shuttle bus contractor, Leprechaun Lines of Newburgh, scrambled to ramp up service almost overnight in response to this demand, ultimately connecting to every arriving and departing train and running on weekends for the first time.

Skybus, however, went out of business in March 2008, and shuttle bus ridership plummeted.
  by HalMallon
 
An Airport Whose Time May Not Come

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/nyreg ... ort&st=cse

"Stewart International Airport was supposed to be the long-sought fourth major airport to serve the New York metropolitan area. But four years after the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey took control of it, Stewart remains a mystery to most travelers.

More than 60 miles north of Midtown Manhattan just west of Newburgh, N.Y., Stewart is a sleepy outpost of the region’s transportation system. Indeed, though the airport is big enough to handle jumbo jets that can make nonstop flights to Mexico and beyond, it attracts fewer passengers in a year than Kennedy, La Guardia and Newark Liberty International Airports draw in a holiday weekend.

Last week, when transportation officials gathered in Manhattan to discuss the future of air travel in the region, Stewart was no more than a footnote. The authors of a study that concluded that Kennedy and Newark would need additional runways within 25 years said Stewart would provide scant relief to the clogged airspace."
  by HBLR
 
I feel a train to the plane would be useful in this situation, especially taking into consideration emergencies. Where do you put 50 inbound aircraft if there is a bad landing and the plane blocks a runway at one of the current 3 or such? NJ is actually filled with airports, but their airspace is all ready too crowded.
  by northjerseybuff
 
I saw a short article that the MTA president spoke in Orange co and 2 of his goals were to double track the Port Jervis Line and have rail to Newurgh(Stewerts)
  by DutchRailnut
 
It would be nice If you provided a link.
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