• Metro North WOH Service To Be Eliminated If No Federal Bailout

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by NH2060
 
Rockland County counter-threatens to cut off funding to the MTA and operate the trains themselves.

Would be interesting to see -should Orange County follow suit- if this would be under a “Rockland & Orange Railway/Transit Authority” banner or the counties paying NJ Transit directly.

Fair use quote:
“Trains chugging out of New York's Rockland and Orange counties could disappear completely if the MTA doesn't get a $12 billion bailout from the federal government — a loss that has angered officials and would leave many commuters without options...

...At the end of the day, we have transportation people looking for alternatives right now," Day said. "I'm calling the MTA out now. If you are going to have that kind of elimination from service, I want to be released from any connection to the MTA. We will contract for our own service here in Rockland County. Period. And we will keep our own money."
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/traffic/tran ... o/2590182/
Last edited by nomis on Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Edited topic for prep for cross-posting into NJT.
  by TDowling
 
I’m thinking MTA May revert to shuttle service between Middletown and Suffern like they did in the 80s and 90s, or at least have through trains during peak times only.

If this comes to pass and no bailout is made then this will be the first time in almost 200 years these counties will have no rail service.
  by Jeff Smith
 
WoH counties would probably need a state law to withdraw from the MTA. Do they get their money's worth? Probably not. MNRR has a lease with option to buy on the line; I could hardly see MNRR, after they've put in all the money and work on the line north of Suffern, withdrawing.

That said, NJT treats the PJ line like a red-headed step-child. I could see MNRR taking over direct operation North of Suffern. NJT "owns" Suffern AFAIK (the station, etc.), and certainly needs the yard there for Main Line/Hobo service. So as someone mentioned, I could see shuttle service, or through service with a change in crews at Suffern, or an overhead agreement.

Pascack Valley? NJT owns the whole line AFAIK; there are what, three stations in NYS? I don't see that being a huge money drain, and I might bet NJT would continue to operate it as they need the yard at the end-of-line, so passenger count would still defray their cost.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Off-peak shuttle (RDC) north of Suffern was the norm until 1991. I don't think many will miss the through train,
given a change at SEC or HOB is still necessary (and ShortLine has frequent express service, some non-stop to
PABT from Orange County).

The entire PVL, including Woodbine is NJT.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Back it goes to MNRR; it's an MNRR service LOL. Sorry, Simon.

I couldn't think of the yard's name, thanks.

Long term, MNRR would do well to be rid of NJT. And Rockland and Orange may do well to be rid of MTA, but I doubt it. Negotiate overhead rights to Hoboken.
  by amtrakowitz
 
Jeff Smith wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:25 pm Back it goes to MNRR; it's an MNRR service LOL. Sorry, Simon.

I couldn't think of the yard's name, thanks.

Long term, MNRR would do well to be rid of NJT. And Rockland and Orange may do well to be rid of MTA, but I doubt it. Negotiate overhead rights to Hoboken.
Why not the cross-agency forum? After all, the only way train service to Port Jervis would be a wholly Metro-North operation would be if the Tappan Zee crossing were built and the Piermont Branch were rebuilt and connected to it, possibly running M7s/M9s to Suffern and dual-mode trains to PJ all out of GCT. Aside from that, the two state agencies will continue to operate as things are.

This should not be beholden to the demand for federal funds. Absurd to think that a state can depress its own economy and then demand to be bailed out.
  by Jeff Smith
 
You are correct sir! Off to NYC it goes! Can't believe I didn't think of that......
  by Pensyfan19
 
In the midst of cross-forum referencing, is there any news about the MTA getting funding or other counties pledging to save passenger rail service by running it like Rockland?
  by Backshophoss
 
Might help to be divorced from NJT DS north/west of Suffern let the MN RTC's run the line to Port Jervis
Pascack Valley is stuck with NJT no matter what :P :P :P
  by eolesen
 
For the 95% of us who don't live in the NYC area, what exactly is WoH?

Acronyms aren't universal... probably best not to use them in titles unless they're common to the industry or public e.g. FRA, DOT, MOW....
  by STrRedWolf
 
Count me as the 5% who know "WoH" as "West of Hudson." MTA Metro-North spells it out.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Backshophoss wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 pm Might help to be divorced from NJT DS north/west of Suffern let the MN RTC's run the line to Port Jervis
Pascack Valley is stuck with NJT no matter what :P :P :P
I think I've got another thread that talks about just that in the MNRR forum. And it's kind of been my line of thinking all along.

In the bi-level MNRR thread, there's an article linked by LIRRTODAY concerning the fleet strategy, and within that, the MNRR RFEI PDF (how's that for acronyms lol?) that explains WoH ops. NJT owns ALL of the PV line, including Woodbine. I've said upthread, just have MNRR end the contract; what's NJT going to do?

NJT also owns the PJ as far as, and including, Suffern station (not sure about yard, but I think they own that as well). MNRR leases the line north of Suffern from NS, who'd probably like MNRR to exercise their option to purchase. As I've also noted, if MNRR and Prince Andrew built TZB rail, it would have made sense to exercise that option and take over operation. Now? Well, they could take over operation anyway, and just run shuttles.

In a way, it's kind of like how CtDOT must feel sometimes being under MNRR's thumb on the New Haven Line.
  by Backshophoss
 
Believe the Division post would be just north of NJT Suffern yard. If the split were to happen
Suffern Industrial track is MN's as well,but is impassable in spots
Pascack Valley Line north of the state line is too short to split off,NJT retains control along with Woodbine yard