Green Line Type 9 Thread

[BostonUrbEx]

They could always go with those "egg shell" ones and toughen up the design of the cab ends to a Type 7 look. I agree the look would be more fitting, but have to worry more about function here...

[#5 - Dyre Ave]

I was just browsing on Kinki's revamped site and drooling over their offerings.

http://www.kinkisharyo-usa.com/

Their newest LRVs bost some great things, like bike racks, fold-up seats in the handicap spaces, and couplers covered by an energy-absorbing bumper (sounds great for all the collisions we've been having lately)

They look pretty good too (and even come in green!):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kinkisharyo

Imagine that car with a tapered front end and split windshield... mmm. Their Seatle cars aren't bad looking either, but holy crap the San Jose cars are godaweful.

With the success of the type 7s compared to the series before and after them I really hope Kinki will come with an acceptable bid.

Kinkisharyo's LFX-300 model looks like it would be perfect for the Green Line, except that it would need a third door in the rear section. It's not too long to fit in the tunnels at 65 feet long per three-section unit.

[djlong]

I just had a chance to ride the LUAS Red Line in Dublin a week and a half ago.

THAT is what the MBTA should be shooting for with the Type 9 order. There's no reason they couldn't get a 'slim' version of those trainsets. I was on them when they took 90-degree turns in the streets of Dublin. I say 'slim' because the interior has 2-abreast seating on either side of the aisle and I think you have to go to a 2-1 (as opposed to 2-2) arrangement to be narrow enough to go through the Boylston curve.

LUAS was a joy to ride.

[jwhite07]

I say 'slim' because the interior has 2-abreast seating on either side of the aisle and I think you have to go to a 2-1 (as opposed to 2-2) arrangement to be narrow enough to go through the Boylston curve.

The Citadis trams used by LUAS are 2.4m wide, which works out to 94 inches. Type 7s and 8s are 104 inches wide. No problem there. I believe the 2-1 seating of a Type 7 is to provide for more standee room. You can do 2-2, but the aisles would be too narrow for the number of standees typically encountered on the Green Line.

There are probably a host of other clearance issues that would preclude using a Citadis on the Green Line (overall length and truck centers affecting swing radius among them), but width of a Dublin example doesn't appear to be an issue. In fact, Citadis trams also come in 2.65m width models, which is 104.3 inches... probably about the same as a Green Line car with advertisement frames installed.

[djlong]

Then I stand corrected. I saw them take a tight 90-degree turn on a pretty narrow Dublin street and was wishing (like I did on the Eurostar a couple weeks ago) "why can't WE have that?"

The train was a 5-segment-long car. Full walk-through or all the articulated segments. I'm showing my geekiness but it was fascinating to be inside (we got on at Heuston and eventually off at Connolly) and watch this thing take the curves. No more of that wasted space of (in the example of a 3-car train in Boston) 6 operator cabs and 2 gaps between cars. Heck, the seats were covered in fabric as well.

I repeat - why can't WE have this?

[Patrick Boylan]

Green Line Type 9 Thread

A final example comes from other american subway systems. How did Washington DC metro work to attract car dependent commuters when they opened in the 1970s? IMAGE. Carpets. Cushioned seats. Forward facing seats.

I'm not sure what you mean about forward facing seats. Half the transverse seats on a WMATA subway car face forward, the other half face backward, just like any other double ended cars I've seen with transverse seats.
Are you comparing it with Boston's subways which, if I remember correctly, have longitudinal seats, so they face into the car's center aisle? But the green line has mostly transverse seats, so it's got the same 'forward' seating arrangement as WMATA.

The little interior things is what the MBTA sucks at providing, and hopefully, the type 9s have more thought put into them.

...
-Demand doors

What are 'demand doors'? Do you mean doors that the operator unlocks remotely and the passenger opens? I've noticed a trend, new LRV's and buses seem to have the operator open the doors, even if the line used to have a passenger control. For example NJT Riverline has a 'press green button to open door', but the doors seem to open regardless of if you press the button or not.

On the other hand SEPTA's Kawasaki cars not only have passenger controlled center doors, again as long as the car operator has unlocked them, but a foot treadle opens them. I can't figure why pressing a button to open a door is better than just standing on the center door steps, especially if I'm holding packages. However I do see how that can be a pain if somebody's standing on the center door treadle who's not planning on getting off, which does happen once in a while in Philly, and I imagine happened often on all the old fashioned equipment that emphasized enter front, exit center doors.

You Boston folks might not know about that phenomenon. Even in PCC days I think you only used the center doors in the subway stations where the cashiers had already collected fares. Isn't that the arrangement today, despite having 3 doors per side doesn't Boston's green line use only the front door at street surface stops?

-Buttons for stops instead of tape

What's the advantage of buttons instead of tape? I think tape gives a lot more places where a passenger can engage the stop request signal than a button. Tape seems to be an improvement over the old pull cords, at least I can remember a lot of broken cords, or the mechanism that the cords pulled, in my childhood.

[jamesinclair]

What I meant was:

1) Yes I meant transverse instead of longitudinal. And no, the type 8s are all longitudinal.I find the type 7s have the best seating, a very good mix of standing and seating room.

2) Yes, doors that open when passengers need it, not all the time. The blue line now has them, but theyre not used. They save money on maintenance, and they make people more comfortable, no snow blowing in when nobody wants to get off. San Francisco PCCs also operate as in your example, where you step down to open the door. I think buttons are better because they can be used on the outside as well.

All doors now open at every stop on the green line.

3) I find the tape to be less responsive and seems to be out of service more often. The newest MBTA buses have a TON of buttons which are very convenient and always seem to work. Also, you KNOW when you push a button, its hard to tell if the tape registered your push. Buttons can also be placed on every single pole (again, as on the bus) instead of just along walls.

[octr202]

Then I stand corrected. I saw them take a tight 90-degree turn on a pretty narrow Dublin street and was wishing (like I did on the Eurostar a couple weeks ago) "why can't WE have that?"

The train was a 5-segment-long car. Full walk-through or all the articulated segments. I'm showing my geekiness but it was fascinating to be inside (we got on at Heuston and eventually off at Connolly) and watch this thing take the curves. No more of that wasted space of (in the example of a 3-car train in Boston) 6 operator cabs and 2 gaps between cars. Heck, the seats were covered in fabric as well.

I repeat - why can't WE have this?

I was having the same feeling last week in Melbourne riding the Combino trams on several routes there - I never did manage to catch one of the Citadis, though. I wonder if the T's desire to not have to modify the shops to handle the much longer cars shapes the design here.

[djlong]

I was having the same feeling last week in Melbourne riding the Combino trams on several routes there - I never did manage to catch one of the Citadis, though. I wonder if the T's desire to not have to modify the shops to handle the much longer cars shapes the design here.

...as opposed to having to know how to maintain severl different types of LRVs. And if they don't have shops that can handle 3 LRVs in a row, they must be some pretty small shops (I only ever saw the insides of the Watertown barn)

Seems to me there's plenty of space at Riverside, less so at Reservoir and they're still planning what to do on the north side.

[octr202]

Usually the big question is how the lifts are designed. Track space is one thing, but if there are fixed lifts accommodating vehicles of different lengths could require expensive retrofitting of the shop.

Of course, to make a car like the long (5-section) Citadis or Combino work, we'd really need to adopt a true proof of payment fare system...Melbourne doesn't have the issue of everyone needing to board through the front door to pay their fare.

[diburning]

I was having the same feeling last week in Melbourne riding the Combino trams on several routes there - I never did manage to catch one of the Citadis, though. I wonder if the T's desire to not have to modify the shops to handle the much longer cars shapes the design here.

...as opposed to having to know how to maintain severl different types of LRVs. And if they don't have shops that can handle 3 LRVs in a row, they must be some pretty small shops (I only ever saw the insides of the Watertown barn)

Seems to me there's plenty of space at Riverside, less so at Reservoir and they're still planning what to do on the north side.

Remember, the shops were servicing Boeings, Type 7s, and Type 8s at one point! It's not impossible, although if the new cars are longer, then they may need new equipment to lift the cars or to even jack them up.

[sery2831]

They are building a new maintenance shop in Somerville. So a new shop could be made to accommodate a new type of LRV But I don't want to go off topic here.

[SM89]

I just hope the new cars aren't as loud as the Type 8s. The 7s were so quiet, I don't understand why the Bredas had to be so loud.

[CircusFreakGRITZ]

Yeah, I can hear the bredas from my dorm room. I live in the BACK of my building on the second floor on Huntington Ave...and I can hear them even with my windows closed sometimes. It seems like the ac/dc converters on the red line 1800s and the new blue line cars are a little quieter than the bredas. Or, maybe it just seems that way because they're heavy rail so we're not as close to the converters b/c the platforms are so high.

[MBTA3247]

AFAIK the noise is a "feature" of Adtranz propulsion equipment. The R142As in New York have almost identical equipment (Bombardier model 1508C vs the Type 8s' Adtranz model 1507D; Bombardier acquired Adtranz in 2001) and they sound very similar to the Type 8s.