Railroad Forums 

  • Green Line Extension Lechmere to Medford

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

 #1254010  by trainhq
 
I've designed transit sound walls. For electric light rail, they don't need to be more
than 3-4 feet high. Most of the sound comes from the wheels on the rails, with some
from the motor, and since both are pretty low that's enough. Don't think scenic considerations will matter when they're that low; they're usually not considered
intrusive.
 #1254097  by Finch
 
trainhq wrote:I've designed transit sound walls. For electric light rail, they don't need to be more
than 3-4 feet high. Most of the sound comes from the wheels on the rails, with some
from the motor, and since both are pretty low that's enough. Don't think scenic considerations will matter when they're that low; they're usually not considered
intrusive.
No doubt much of the noise comes from track level. But modern low(ish)-floor cars have the bulk of the subsystem equipment on the roof. HVAC, auxiliary power, propulsion controller, and more. Even an older Type 7 has noise sources up high. I'm curious if they will take this into account, or if it's really a non-issue.
 #1254309  by CRail
 
The high wealth residences adjacent the elevated structure between the viaduct and Lechmere station which lacks sound abatement completely proves that all of it is a non-issue.
 #1254339  by Type7trolley
 
CRail wrote:The high wealth residences adjacent the elevated structure between the viaduct and Lechmere station which lacks sound abatement completely proves that all of it is a non-issue.
Not to mention the miles of track which run down residential streets on the B C and E branches. With the exception of sharp curves, the green line is generally as quiet as or quieter than street traffic.
 #1254407  by bostontrainguy
 
CRail wrote:The high wealth residences adjacent the elevated structure between the viaduct and Lechmere station which lacks sound abatement completely proves that all of it is a non-issue.
Hell, you can look right into people's apartments from the viaduct the buildings are so close.
 #1254549  by FatNoah
 
The high wealth residences adjacent the elevated structure between the viaduct and Lechmere station which lacks sound abatement completely proves that all of it is a non-issue.
It may also be more politically expedient to put the barriers near "lower wealth" areas. Rich people complaining doesn't sell nearly as well. That said, the Lechmere viaduct existed before the housing near it, so it probably would have been up to the developer to pay for the barriers.
 #1254564  by bostontrainguy
 
FatNoah wrote:
The high wealth residences adjacent the elevated structure between the viaduct and Lechmere station which lacks sound abatement completely proves that all of it is a non-issue.
It may also be more politically expedient to put the barriers near "lower wealth" areas. Rich people complaining doesn't sell nearly as well. That said, the Lechmere viaduct existed before the housing near it, so it probably would have been up to the developer to pay for the barriers.
True, but Yard 8 was there long before the squeaky wheels in Brickbottom turned an industrial building into a funky residence.

It's like when people move next to the airport and then complain about the airplanes!

The MBTA pays millions (of our money) for mitigation. Just look at Greenbush.
 #1254603  by GP40MC1118
 
You're darn right about the squeaky wheels at Brickbottom (having battled them for
months after they "moved in"). I wonder how they are going to like those squealing
wheels of the Green Line Union Square flyovers at the old Red Bridge. Serves 'em right...

D (Not bitter, really...)
 #1254828  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Let's not forget, a whole lot of the Lowell Line pit already has fencing and granite block retaining walls. And fitting the Community Path means it has to be shifted and/or widened in parts right up to the edge of the property lines. New retaining wall construction is a requirement of the build with nearly all earthen embankments or buffering vegetation disappearing. The amount of concrete required just to achieve 2 x 2 tracks + utilities + the path out to Somerville Jct. means the ride was going to be an endless wall under any build scenario. Plunking a few extra feet's worth of sound wall on top of those required retaining walls is not a big additional expense. And somewhat necessary around properties that currently have 25-50 ft. of brush and tree overgrowth buffering them from the ROW. It's not 100% a NIMBY or moneyed interest thing. The decibel level changes noticeably and dramatically there without the vegetation to muffle it and with the unavoidable amplification of sound caused by all that non-optional retaining wall construction. This is entirely fair and prudent mitigation (for the most part).
 #1254829  by TrainManTy
 
Also, while light rail vehicles may produce most of their noise down by the rail level, remember that commuter rail trains on the Lowell Line also make a fair bit of noise. The sound walls may not be entirely for Green Line mitigation.
 #1254983  by Arlington
 
Any ideas why the T would be proposing a 17 month closure of Lechmere to do the new station? Seems outrageous, really, given that the new station is going to be built across the street from the old one. Why won't it have more like the "buses for a 4-day weekend" that other similar "final 50 feet of track" switchovers have taken. What is it about the current station that requires it to be torn down? Is it the way the T signed the deal with Northpoint? The T can't get the new site until Pan Am/Delaware North/Northpoint get the old site?
MBTA project manager Jeffrey A. Sarin confirmed at a Feb. 4 meeting that the current Lechmere station would close February 2016 and the relocated station would open mid-2017, resident Alan Greene said, making a gap of up to 17 months that would roughly match the disruption ending in 2005. A message was left Wednesday with Sarin. Instead, MBTA spokesman Joe Pesaturo responded to say the Lechmere closing date was “still to be determined.”
...
With demolition of the Lechmere T station first and a relocated replacement coming second, East Cambridge is due for at least its third long-term transportation disruption in a decade, officials and neighborhood representatives warned Monday.

A policy order by Tim Toomey asked fellow city councillors to oppose the closing of Lechmere before its replacement was in place, and for the city manager to examine the issue with the state Department of Transportation and Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority.
http://www.cambridgeday.com/2014/02/26/ ... ill-alive/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1255037  by Teamdriver
 
Funding for Green Line included in Obama’s budget

Funding for extension of the Green Line has been included in President Obama’s federal budget proposal, US Representative Michael Capuano said today.

The funding has been included in the president’s fiscal 2015 budget, Capuano said, calling it “an important step in securing the federal funding necessary.”

“I strongly support this project and will continue working with state and federal officials to advance it,” Capuano said in a statement. “The environmental and economic benefits of extending the Green Line are tremendous and residents are overwhelmingly in support of it.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/ ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1255269  by CRail
 
A 17 month closure is absurd and I'm glad to see that state officials are fighting it. What an outrageous and ignorant disregard to the service provided. It seems as though all of the attention is on the fancy new stuff without the slightest concern for the logistical reality. I hope that plan falls flat on its face.

Regarding the sound walls, I think the objection was to the elevated portions. I don't think putting a barrier over a retaining wall is going to bother anyone much.
 #1255358  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Why does Lechmere have to be closed at all? Switching the tracks off the viaduct from the old alignment to the new is something that can be done in one single weekend. In fact...pretty much every time in the system's modern history a major realignment HAS taken place it was done in one single weekend. Gov't Ctr. '63, Orange-north '75, Red-north '83, Orange-south '87, Green NS Superstation '04. Science Park was the only real exception because the new incline couldn't be constructed until the old viaduct connection was demolished.


I bet this has something to do with the Northpoint land-swap. Construction's years late, so maybe it's a hurry-up move to whoever Pan Am is courting to redevelop the old Lechmere station parcel to get a head-start on demolition of that site. It's cynical, but that sounds exactly like the sort of garbage the T would get pressured from the top into doing by all the big-money development interests tied up in Northpoint. It's probably a decision that can get reversed pretty quickly if there's an uproar they're forced to damage-control from. At they very least they need to give us one damn good reason why it's logistically necessary when the only intersection with GLX construction is at one single bent of the viaduct off to the side of the road away from any/all buildings and traffic below.
 #1255407  by BandA
 
I don't understand why the GLX is attached to the green line rather than the orange line. Orange line cars are a much better form factor than the type 8 kludge. And since they are building all new grandiose stations, there is no benefit or cost saving for low boarding.
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