Expansion to double size of North Station by November(2006)

[MBTA F40PH-2C 1050]

w/ shorter platforms now, how many car trainsets will be able to fit in the station?

[danib62]

w/ shorter platforms now, how many car trainsets will be able to fit in the station?

The expansion will take up 80 feet of track space and according to http://members.aol.com/rtspcc/roster/MBTAroster.html commuter rail coaches are 85 feet in length so they'll only lose one car length from the current platforms.

[danib62]

There is a video up at http://cbs4boston.com/video/[email protected] which has a sketch of what the finished interior will look like. Funnily enough they seem to show more footage of the new "superstation" then of the current commuter rail terminal to which the report pertains.

[Ron Newman]

Does this mean they will have to start running double-deckers to make up for the reduced number of cars in each train?

[DowntownDave]

Are there any trains now which use the full length of the platforms anyway?

[danib62]

I don't believe trains ever take up the whole platform or even come close for that matter. According to google earth the closest any of the trains parked there come the end of the platform is 347 feet. Taking up 80 of those feet is not a bad investment

[railfan101]

Does this mean they will have to start running double-deckers to make up for the reduced number of cars in each train?

This would be nice!!!!!!!!!!!

[MBTA F40PH-2C 1050]

no, i doubt the North Side will start seeing double deckers just because of this

[krtaylor]

I realize it gets crowded in there, but I think this is a stupid deal for MBTA. The undeveloped property is fantastically valuable, even with the easement, and it can't be long before it gets developed. And when that's done, you'd have gotten a proper headhouse without shortening the tracks. Now, you shorten the tracks (bad), and get a bigger surface-area headhouse (good), BUT:

- You have to stick with the ceiling you've got, which means fairly low overhead. No high open welcoming spaces like South Station. It'll have all the ambience of an old bus terminal - and much less than South Station's new bus terminal.

- No enclosed connection to the subway, and probably you'll never get one.

- No direct connection to the street. The best you can hope for is that the new development would be a shopping arcade of some kind, that commuters can walk through. But in any event, the station will be hidden, buried, and lost from sight to people who don't already know it's there. Bad for advertising.

- No hope for the future. Build a new building without a new headhouse, and you'll have to wait 50 years to get another chance to do it right.

But that's the MBTA for you - absolutely no thoughts for the future, only for immediate convenience and cost savings. The owners of the facility must be laughing their way all the way to the bank - for a few million of concrete and tile, they get free title to hugely valuable prime ground-level retail space when they build.

[danib62]

I realize it gets crowded in there, but I think this is a stupid deal for MBTA. The undeveloped property is fantastically valuable, even with the easement, and it can't be long before it gets developed. And when that's done, you'd have gotten a proper headhouse without shortening the tracks. Now, you shorten the tracks (bad), and get a bigger surface-area headhouse (good), BUT:

Why are people so worried about shortening the tracks? North station has way more platform space then they will ever need. All you lose is one car's worth of platform space. Not a bad tradeoff.

- You have to stick with the ceiling you've got, which means fairly low overhead. No high open welcoming spaces like South Station. It'll have all the ambience of an old bus terminal - and much less than South Station's new bus terminal.

No you don't! The ceiling is going to be much higher. 27 feet high versus 10! It's no South Station but it's nothing to sneeze at.

- No direct connection to the street. The best you can hope for is that the new development would be a shopping arcade of some kind, that commuters can walk through. But in any event, the station will be hidden, buried, and lost from sight to people who don't already know it's there. Bad for advertising.

The station is just as hidden as the Garden is! I don't think this is such a big deal. There are plenty of signs and everyone can see the Garden looming there.

- No hope for the future. Build a new building without a new headhouse, and you'll have to wait 50 years to get another chance to do it right.

But that's the MBTA for you - absolutely no thoughts for the future, only for immediate convenience and cost savings. The owners of the facility must be laughing their way all the way to the bank - for a few million of concrete and tile, they get free title to hugely valuable prime ground-level retail space when they build.

You seem very pessimistic about this whole project. I think this is just what the doctor ordered. If you want to wait another 10 years then maybe you'll get your fantasy station on the old garden site. Some of us don't want to wait that long. Speaking of which your North Station on the old garden site won't even abut the tracks! This would just be a waiting area and riders would still have to walk considerable distance from it to the tracks! This new station is right where the tracks are. This is a viable North Station in our time!

And with that I'd like to thank all the "little people" who helped along the way to my status as a contributor! To all the admins and the regulars thank you! I think it's time I get me an avatar to celebrate!

[krtaylor]

If the MBTA had paid something to make this arrangement, without giving up their rights to a proper headhouse on the old site, then I'd be all for it. The problem is that they are giving up something of irreplaceable value for something which, while indeed worth having on a temporary basis, is both shortsighted and could have been achieved in some other way.

[danib62]

If the MBTA had paid something to make this arrangement, without giving up their rights to a proper headhouse on the old site, then I'd be all for it. The problem is that they are giving up something of irreplaceable value for something which, while indeed worth having on a temporary basis, is both shortsighted and could have been achieved in some other way.

I don't understand why you're so hung up about not getting a headhouse. As much as I'd like to see one from a railfan perspective it's not so important. They've done just fine without one for this long. I'll take the current solution. And what can I say the price is right!

[krtaylor]

Because when they add commuter rail to NH, and additional rail lines and service elsewhere, there will need to be much more capacity for commuters, and sacrificing the ability for longer trains could potentially be a problem. They certainly aren't going to be making any more highways into Boston, that's for sure.

The trouble is that they won't get another chance for a proper terminal headhouse for 50 years at least, probably more. For the next 10 years, or maybe even 20, it really isn't going to be an issue; but it will present an unsolvable problem for at least 30 years beyond that.

[danib62]

Because when they add commuter rail to NH, and additional rail lines and service elsewhere, there will need to be much more capacity for commuters, and sacrificing the ability for longer trains could potentially be a problem. They certainly aren't going to be making any more highways into Boston, that's for sure.

The trouble is that they won't get another chance for a proper terminal headhouse for 50 years at least, probably more. For the next 10 years, or maybe even 20, it really isn't going to be an issue; but it will present an unsolvable problem for at least 30 years beyond that.

By the time we have lines to NH I think we may also have the North-South Rail Link so it won't be an issue by then. As for your precious capacity that they sacrifice they have more then enough.

[krtaylor]

NH lines could be added without very much expensive infrastructure work; the N-S rail link is, I think, very difficult to imagine ever happening. Eventually NH is going to have to decide either to build more highways, or pay for a commuter rail extension to Nashua and Manchester, which would also benefit Manchester airport. The rail solution would probably be enormously cheaper, although the politics would be hard to predict.