• MBB Overhaul

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

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  by Tadman
 
CRail wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:42 am You can type it over and over again and it won't make it true. They've lasted fine with moderate signs of wear for 30+ years of service with no overhaul/rebuild. The money spent on restoring them for future service is modest at worst, especially compared to the outrageous cost of procuring new equipment. It's definitely fair to say they haven't aged as well as the Pullman/Bomb cars (also doing a pretty good job holding up with no rebuild 200s excepted), but overall there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.
I think perhaps there's a fundamental misunderstanding here. First, there is indeed a "use by" date. It's not stamped on the car itself, but in the procurement docs and industry standards, there is a target design life for a passenger train car. Otherwise the carbuilder would have no idea how to design the car, and also open the company up to serious liability at some point.

Second, the "outrageous" cost of new equipment isn't so outrageous. It buys brand new railcars with a warranty, a design life of about 25-30 years, a guaranteed stream of replacement parts, and more efficient and environmentally friendly hvac, lighting, and toilets. Compare that with older cars that might have parts that are no longer made. The older cars also have significant metal fatique and rust. Sometimes obsolete parts can be made, sometimes rust can be patched, sometimes frames can be beefed up. This comes at a significant cost in regular maintenance dollars and equipment redundancy to keep the schedule filled while cars sit in the shop having a machinist custom-make things like door mechanisms or hvac components.

At some point, MBTA has a staff of accountants who do a study. They look at the new cost for a railcar, and they look at the total operating cost for a railcar. They compare the present value of both. This means acquisition, maintenance, inspection, fleet size, insurance cost, etc. Sometimes what seems like a bargain to repair old cars actually costs more, much more.
  by sonicdoommario
 
The 1533, which was involved in the derailment between two trains last year (a PTC-testing train and a train not in service just outside of South Station, I believe) has returned from repairs in Delaware. According to NETransit, it's no longer in use as a control car and has been renumbered to 533, also apparently overhauled the same way the 520 was?
  by RenegadeMonster
 
Interesting that the 1533 got renumbered to 533.

While it's a bummer that the 1533 is no longer a control cab this was kind of expected as all the overhauled coaches were going to have their controls disabled. I didn't realize they were going to renumber them. Wonder if that means all the future 1500 overhauls will get renumbered as well. And if they are, what are they going to do if the 5xx version of the number already exists?
  by CRail
 
Probably just number them sequentially higher like the 200s
  by chrisf
 
sonicdoommario wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:11 am The 1533, which was involved in the derailment between two trains last year (a PTC-testing train and a train not in service just outside of South Station, I believe) has returned from repairs in Delaware. According to NETransit, it's no longer in use as a control car and has been renumbered to 533, also apparently overhauled the same way the 520 was?
There’s a picture of the car here from yesterday, still numbered as 1533. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if MBTA renumbers it when it gets back to MBTA property.
http://photos.greatrails.net/showpic/?p ... 128748.jpg
  by sonicdoommario
 
It looks like it's on the Cape Flyer set, along with the rebuilt 520. Maybe the MBTA did its own work on it when they got it back from Delaware?
  by Mbtagp40mc
 
According to NETransit, 533 is ex 1503.
  by RenegadeMonster
 
So is 1533 still a control cab then?
  by Mbtagp40mc
 
RenegadeMonster wrote:So is 1533 still a control cab then?
It appears so.
  by sonicdoommario
 
Here's a video of the Cape Flyer, with both the rebuilt 520 and the 533 (the ex-1503) on the set. Also, the 1812 making its first appearance down south in over 5 years is on the set too, but not as a control car since there's a loco on each end.

https://youtu.be/o18Jgy34nuY?t=213
  by apodino
 
I am not a fan of the MBB fleet personally, but they have done their job nicely. I would have liked to have seen the interiors updated to at least be common to the Bombardier fleet.

One thing I wonder. Historically the Bombardier Cab Cars were only used on the North Side, with the south side Cab's either being MBB or the Kawasaki Bi Level. Is this still the practice?
  by RenegadeMonster
 
For the most part, but the Bombardier Cab Cars can operate on the South Side post PTC upgrades.
  by CRail
 
Bomb cars ran south before ACSES. In fact, the control car in the incident that triggered ACSES in the area of Back Bay (in which the 1073 was destroyed) was 1614. They had cab signals but the brake systems were not able to suppress a penalty application making them not ACSES compatible.

They tested a 1600 on the south side after ACSES equipment was installed but it had issues from what I understand so they still stay north. Maybe once if ever the PTC issues are worked out they’ll try again.
  by Mbtagp40mc
 
I know that 2 Bombardier cabs operated down south last summer (1645 and 1636 I believe). Was that a test?
  by apodino
 
CRail wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:15 pm Bomb cars ran south before ACSES. In fact, the control car in the incident that triggered ACSES in the area of Back Bay (in which the 1073 was destroyed) was 1614. They had cab signals but the brake systems were not able to suppress a penalty application making them not ACSES compatible.

They tested a 1600 on the south side after ACSES equipment was installed but it had issues from what I understand so they still stay north. Maybe once if ever the PTC issues are worked out they’ll try again.
Great info. I didn't know that the Bombardier Cab Cars had ACSES issues or even didn't have them installed. That makes perfect sense.

I will note about the incident you referred to just to rehash a few things. The Train involved at the time of the incident was stopped at Back Bay on Track 1. Amtrak train 66 was inbound to South Station on Track 2, and was going too fast through the Back Bay tunnel and derailed on the curve approaching back bay station, which led to the Amtrak locomotive colliding with the MBTA locomotive on the parked train. There was no issue with any faulty MBTA equipment in this incident. I wanted to rehash that point. (The locomotive was scrapped though)
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