Signals on both ends of Rockville station,

[MCL1981]

I just noticed this. There are intermediate signals showing he same aspect on both ends of the Rockville station. For example, this morning the eastbound track 1 signals both showed approach. They're only a few hundred feet apart, basically each end of the station. Within view of each other actually I think. Why?

[Sand Box John]

"MCL1981"
I just noticed this. There are intermediate signals showing he same aspect on both ends of the Rockville station. For example, this morning the eastbound track 1 signals both showed approach. They're only a few hundred feet apart, basically each end of the station. Within view of each other actually I think. Why?

To remind the engineer what the aspect was at the previous signal.

As you may remember the cause of the Silver Spring wreck was the engineer not remembering the previous signal aspect after making the Kensington station stop.

[MCL1981]

That was my guess as well. But there are no other stations with that arrangement. Perhaps Rockville has it because Amtrak also stops there, giving it more use?

[strench707]

Going eastbound you can have a Clear at Derwood, an Approach at West Rockville, and a Restricted Proceed at East Rockville with the end of another train sitting right there.

The signals were placed with the intention of avoiding Delay in Block procedure but have consequently created an extremely short block.

Davis

[MattW]

Going eastbound you can have a Clear at Derwood, an Approach at West Rockville, and a Restricted Proceed at East Rockville with the end of another train sitting right there.

The signals were placed with the intention of avoiding Delay in Block procedure but have consequently created an extremely short block.

Davis

They wouldn't have Derwood at advance approach or approach medium?

[MCL1981]

Going eastbound you can have a Clear at Derwood, an Approach at West Rockville, and a Restricted Proceed at East Rockville with the end of another train sitting right there.

The signals were placed with the intention of avoiding Delay in Block procedure but have consequently created an extremely short block.

Davis

Sure, if that that train just fell out of the sky. Is the whole idea to have enough distance between signals for a train to react? Going from approach to restricting or stop in like 500ft is not remotely useful. I would think east and west Rockville would both be showing restricting, and Derwood would be showing approach.

[mmi16]

Going eastbound you can have a Clear at Derwood, an Approach at West Rockville, and a Restricted Proceed at East Rockville with the end of another train sitting right there.

The signals were placed with the intention of avoiding Delay in Block procedure but have consequently created an extremely short block.

Davis

Sure, if that that train just fell out of the sky. Is the whole idea to have enough distance between signals for a train to react? Going from approach to restricting or stop in like 500ft is not remotely useful. I would think east and west Rockville would both be showing restricting, and Derwood would be showing approach.

The CSX signal engineers have yet to master braking distance in their calculations for signal spacing. Implemented a Control Point at Thomas - 649 feet from the Control Point at Dorsey. First train that was lined all the way to the Absolute Signal at Dorsey ran through the STOP indication, as he had 649 feet to go from Maximum authorized speed under the Approach Indication that was displayed at Thomas to the Stop at Dorsey - needles to say, the train didn't get stopped in time, fortunately no conflicting route had been lined and no train was just beyond the Dorsey Control Point.

[MCL1981]

In a circumstance like that, does the engineer get dinged for running a signal he couldn't possibly have avoided running?

[STrRedWolf]

In a circumstance like that, does the engineer get dinged for running a signal he couldn't possibly have avoided running?

At worst, the penalty is death.

Did CSX ever get a signal put back at Kensington?

[mmi16]

In a circumstance like that, does the engineer get dinged for running a signal he couldn't possibly have avoided running?

At worst, the penalty is death.

Did CSX ever get a signal put back at Kensington?

The immediate aftermath was to require trains making a Station Stop to proceed at Restricted Speed until the next signal was observed.

[ThirdRail7]

In a circumstance like that, does the engineer get dinged for running a signal he couldn't possibly have avoided running?

At worst, the penalty is death.

Did CSX ever get a signal put back at Kensington?

The immediate aftermath was to require trains making a Station Stop to proceed at Restricted Speed until the next signal was observed.

There have been circumstances in which the F.R.A. will overturn a decertification and railroads will not assess discipline due to what is called "mitigating circumstances." It has been used when situations occur and someone realizes the block may have been too short, leaving the crew without "reasonable recourse."

[MCL1981]

For at least the stations between Germantown and Union, the signals are either visible or in close proximity. Most of the time, you'll hear the engineer radio departing the station DIB. And in such case, they're max I believe is medium speed. But the next signal comes into view in less than a minute. In most cases the next signal comes into view before the train reaches medium speed in the first place. I hardly if ever even notice the DIB speed restrictions for that reason. I can't think of anywhere where even if the entire crew forgot, they could get up enough speed to have a problem at the next signal. And even if the crew forgot, it doesn't take a mile to stop a 6 car passenger train either. The signals have decent line of sight and the train can stop fairly quickly. The engineer and conductors radio every signal they pass. And they radio every station departure with signal condition. Put simply, I don't see how those circumstances could repeat themselves today short of a passenger hijacking the train.

[mmi16]

For at least the stations between Germantown and Union, the signals are either visible or in close proximity. Most of the time, you'll hear the engineer radio departing the station DIB. And in such case, they're max I believe is medium speed. But the next signal comes into view in less than a minute. In most cases the next signal comes into view before the train reaches medium speed in the first place. I hardly if ever even notice the DIB speed restrictions for that reason. I can't think of anywhere where even if the entire crew forgot, they could get up enough speed to have a problem at the next signal. And even if the crew forgot, it doesn't take a mile to stop a 6 car passenger train either. The signals have decent line of sight and the train can stop fairly quickly. The engineer and conductors radio every signal they pass. And they radio every station departure with signal condition. Put simply, I don't see how those circumstances could repeat themselves today short of a passenger hijacking the train.

Which has been the purpose of the Rule and Signal changes that have been implemented since that tragic incident.

[strench707]

In a circumstance like that, does the engineer get dinged for running a signal he couldn't possibly have avoided running?

The crew was exonerated in the Thomas/Dorsey case.

Davis