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Intersting LIRR G5s phenomenon

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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Intersting LIRR G5s phenomenon

 #17492  by Paul
 
While looking though all the books for smoke box pictures, I came across this one in "The Trains We Rode" by Beebe and Clegg. I noticed something just a little differant about the smoke box on LIRR 23 then any other PRR locomotives using the same pressed steel front. (Class A-5 up to J-1) Also, it apears that LIRR 21 was the same way, how ever LIRR 24 in a picture provided by Mr. Keller has the traditional bolting pattern of bolts being "doubled up" on the bottom half of the smoke box front. I guess I can save my self alot of drill and tap time! Any ideas about this?
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 #17823  by n2qhvRMLI
 
Hi Paul,

I guess the first question is: what number G5s are you using for your particular prototype? (Sorry, I've forgotten!!!!) The second is: are you concerend with the accuracy of the individual prototype or just the accuracy of the locomotive class? You know, some Master Modeller will call you on it :wink:

Besides the number of lower studs and holes, where are you putting the air tank on your steamer? As "jayrmli" pointed out - #39 has her air tank mounted on the fireman's side - mid ships. The loco in this picture has the earlier, head end installation.

BTW, I now have my digital camera up and working again. I'll be at Riverhead on Tuesday and I'll shoot some pix of the smoke box for ya. I'll e-mail them out late Tuesday night. Enjoy!

L.I. Fred
Don

 #17824  by n2qhvRMLI
 
Brother Paul,

OK, let me go for the jugular! If it were up to me, I'd KEEP DRILLING! :D :D :D :D :D

L.I. Fred
Don, N2QHV

 #17843  by Dave Keller
 
And here's #24, only one digit away from the #23, also with the added bolting pattern.

Dave KellerImage

 #17877  by Paul
 
Not limited to just #23. Top picture is #21 (the one I am modeling) showing the same bolt detail as #23 and bottom, a G5s of unknown number. As far as being acurate? Well, I do have proof that it would be inacurate to model it in the traditional sence. If the "Master Modeler" wishes to complain, I will asked him to get down real close track side to observe and then smack him on the side of his head with my coal shovel as I go wizzing by at 8.75mph (70mph scale) :wink: Kinda kinky huh?

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Last edited by Paul on Thu May 06, 2004 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

 #17879  by Paul
 
By the way Don... I just shipped the front casting out to you so YOU can drill and tap all those extra # 3-48 bolt holes!!!!!! :D

 #17936  by jayrmli
 
Just as a clarification from Don's post, the air reservoir was not on the fireman's side of 39, but across from side to side behind the smokebox under the boiler.

Jay

 #17994  by Dave Keller
 
Paul:

I looked in my archive and this is what I come up with.

A shot of #21 in 1939 with double bolts
A shot of #23 in 1937 with double bolts
A shot of #25 in 1935 with double bolts
A shot of #29 in 1936 with double bolts

then . . .a shot of #30 UPON ARRIVAL in LI with double bolts!

Therefore, the single bolts must have only been on the locomotives numbered in the 20s (20 thru 29), as #30, brand spanking new, has double bolts.

Also, Ron Ziel's Long Island Heritage, the G5s shows, on page 20, #20 with single bolts in the 1920s and double bolts in 1948.

The same book on p. 21 shows #21 in 1927 with single bolts and double bolts in 1955.

I guess the modification was made to the #20s (20 thru 29) sometime between their manufacture and the mid-1930s.

Dave Keller

 #17999  by belpaire
 
Probably goes without saying but with the single lower studs there was only one step on the smokebox front. It was on the firemans side mounted above centerline as opposed to the later configuration where one was mounted on each side, below the centerline. This makes determining the stud pattern a little easier in those not so clear photos. To add to Dave's comments, Ziel has a photo in his G5 book showing #24 with the double studs in 1937.

Roger

 #18171  by belpaire
 
Having mentioned the single step with the single studs, I came across a photo to prove myself wrong. In Pennsy Power there is a photo of #29 as just finished (in photo grey with striping) with the double studs and single step.

Looking at photos of other Pennsy engines, until sometime in the mid-20's the single studs where the norm.

Roger

 #18204  by Paul
 
Belpaire: Not to trash you theory but... Here is E6 #1092, circa 1910. Double bolted, single step. Note oil type headight. Worse yet, Same book (Pennsy Power Vol 1) differant page. I hate it when that happens. The mystery continues...
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 #18223  by belpaire
 
So much for the Standard Railroad of the World.

Roger
Paul wrote:Belpaire: Not to trash you theory but... Here is E6 #1092, circa 1910. Double bolted, single step. Note oil type headight. Worse yet, Same book (Pennsy Power Vol 1) differant page. I hate it when that happens. The mystery continues...
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 #18304  by Dave Keller
 
Just think . . .

Had they welded instead of bolted and/or riveted back then, we wouldn't have a mystery to discuss! :wink:

Dave Keller

 #18525  by Paul
 
I guess this only proves that I have way too much free time on my hands. Then why am I awlays so tired? Most likely had they welded we would be trying to figure out whether they used 6010 or 7018 rod. I was told by a very steam oriented friend that the doubling of the bolts was because of corrosion created by the chemical reaction of the cinders and water that produced sulfuric acid. No wonder why weeds don't grow in cinder ballast.
Mr Kiesel, where are you when we need you?
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