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  • NYCTA Work Motors On The LIRR

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

 #1547847  by newkirk
 
In 1972, NYCTA R-44 subway cars were used on the LIRR for high speed testing. On another board, some poster I know stated that ten "work motors" were lent to the LIRR. Does anyone know the back story if this is true or not. If anyone has any photos pertaining to this subject, please post.

1) An ex-IND R-4 work motor at the Shea Stadium station, lights are on and drawing power from third rail. Note the section of an M-2 car in the background. If the work motors ran on their own power, who operated them ? NYCTA of LIRR crews ?

2) Undated photo of the R-44's at Jamaica station either newly arrived or ready to be sent back.

3) R-44's in the Shea Stadium station.
Attachments:
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
October 31, 1972.jpg (603.76 KiB) Viewed 2137 times
Undated Photo.JPG
Undated Photo.JPG (256.75 KiB) Viewed 2137 times
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
November 7, 1972.JPG (282.04 KiB) Viewed 2137 times
 #1547853  by Cannon Ball
 
"If the work motors ran on their own power, who operated them ? NYCTA of LIRR crews ?"

I have no direct knowledge of this particular incident, but typical RR practice would have the NYCTA cars operated by an NYCTA employee who is qualified on the equipment, with an LIRR employee who is qualified on the territory over which they will operate, standing beside him/her acting as "pilot" over the route. The TA employee makes the machinery go and stop, and the LIRR employee tells him/her when to do so and ensures compliance with relevant LIRR operating rules. LIRR management person(s) might just go along for the ride, too!
 #1547864  by Pensyfan19
 
I think I forgot to mention that there is a M2 railcar in the first photo. Two pieces of technically foreign equipment on the LIRR. I think the M2s were on the LIRR in the 70s for testing, but I'm not sure why. Can anyone shed a bit of light on this topic?

Also, I think the R44s and other subway cars were allowed to test on the LIRR in order to not disrupt traffic on the subway system, or maybe to test it's compatibility with the existing LIRR system. The M1s and the R44s are kind of similar if you think about it. Other than my comments, what were the other purposes for M2s and subway cars testing on the LIRR, and could it be possible for some thing like that to happen today?
 #1547865  by Kelly&Kelly
 
The R-44s were here for high speed testing. I do recall the M-2s, but forgot what they were doing here. It may have been some type of retrofit program by the manufacturer. Shea shop was rented several times to contractors for programs like that.
 #1547867  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Regarding the M-2s, this was a delivery acceptance facility at Willets Point (Budd/GE). All the M-3s were also
delivered to Willets Point as well between 1983 and 1986, as this was the Budd/TransitAmerica acceptance facility.
M-1 warranty work was also done here (much like did M-7s did so at Arch Street).

The October 1972 date indicates it is among the very first M-2s, which were delivered from Erie August 1972, but were not accepted until April 1973.
 #1547889  by MattW
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:24 pm Would a NYCT work motor not originally built to ICC specs be a violation of (then) ICC rules if running on a main line road?
I would guess that a non-revenue move, and/or absolute block would be required for such a test. I know I've seen pictures of transit equipment rolling along in freight trains not on flat cars, it's incredibly rare, but I'm certain I've seen those pics. But of course, no passengers on board.
 #1547891  by Backshophoss
 
Willets Point was the Budd test site/Warranty/debug repair point ,the P ort Washington branch doubled as the test trackage for Budd
The first pairs of M-2's were setup there and tested on the DC power ,the rest were delivered to Lower Dock yard on the Danbury Branch of then PC for setup and High voltage power testing
Lower Dock was one of the last "Industry tracks" that had working wire ,connected to last working wire on the Danbury branch to the Dock yard
There may have been in the past a temporary switch to the TA off the Port Washington Branch to the # 7 line near Willets Point.
 #1547898  by BuddR32
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:24 pm Would a NYCT work motor not originally built to ICC specs be a violation of (then) ICC rules if running on a main line road?
Today, its doubtful it'd ever happen. 1972 was a different lifetime, anything went. Plus those old IND subway cars are probably more crashworthy than the M1s
 #1547918  by newkirk
 
More images on this subject.
1) Jamaica Station
2) Approaching Jamaica Station
3) Passing Forest Hills
Attachments:
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Feb. 20, 1972.JPG (218.23 KiB) Viewed 1928 times
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Feb. 21, 1972.JPG (289.4 KiB) Viewed 1928 times
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
Photo: Douglas Grotjahn
November 7, 1972.jpg (348.86 KiB) Viewed 1928 times
 #1547925  by 4behind2
 
100mph testing with the R-44's was conducted between WIN and Jay Interlocking. Layups were at Shea and Ten Track in Jamaica.
The "Train to the Plane" scenario was very much alive in 1972, and this was perhaps part of the funding: demonstration testing.
 #1547996  by BuddR32
 
Teutobergerwald wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:13 pm Why are there two different styles of number on L-2 #229's number boards?
I noticed that too. The left one looks like the original font. Perhaps the only way to re-lamp them is by removing the number board and it was misplaced.
 #1548000  by MACTRAXX
 
BuddR32 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:50 pm
Teutobergerwald wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:13 pm Why are there two different styles of number on L-2 #229's number boards?
I noticed that too. The left one looks like the original font. Perhaps the only way to re-lamp them is by removing the number board and it was misplaced.
TBW and R32: The left board is the original #229 with the right one
being the replacement. Another problem during that early 1970s era was
with rock throwers - the original board may have gotten broken - with the
replacement board being either of white glass or plexiglass with stick-on
numerals. It looks odd but gets the job done...MACTRAXX
 #1548001  by MACTRAXX
 
BM: Good set of six photographs from the early 1970s showing testing of equipment on
the LIRR at Flushing Meadow, Jamaica and speed runs on the Main Line near Forest Hills.

1-The half M2 is one of the MTA owned cars - these had M-New Haven and the full text
"Metropolitan Transportation Authority" across the top the same as all M1 and M3 cars.
Connecticut-owned M2 cars had the CT state seal and the text "Connecticut Department
of Transportation" across the top in comparison.

2-The eight car R44 train visible from Track 8 in Jamaica is bracketed on both ends by
NYCTA work motors with compromise couplers - NYCTA uses a special design coupler
- allowing the consist to be moved by and on the LIRR.

3-Photo showing then-new R44 cars testing at the Shea Stadium Station.
They looked really good when they were brand new...

4-This is a really interesting comparison picture of M1 9041 (built 1969) and R44 car
106 (The R44 car numbers originally were 100 to 399; 400 series were Staten Island
Rapid Transit cars) showing their similarities as part of the MTA "family" of rail cars
designed by Sundburg-Ferar during that era. The R44 cars originally had number
signs that were unique to that fleet and would eventually be changed to the white
numerals on a black plate that other NYCTA cars had.

5-Diesel train with C420 229 arriving on Track 8 in Jamaica with the
R44 test train behind along with an older compromise work motor.

6-Testing R44 cars on the Main Line near Forest Hills. The surprise to
me is the date of the picture - November 7, 1972 - taking note to the
trees in the background retaining their leaves with limited fall color.

MACTRAXX