LIRR Push-Pull Train Concept Overview 1971-72 - Power Packs, P72's , and more

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone:

During a recent RMLI visit I found a overview dating from 1971-1972 describing the then-new LIRR push-pull
train service concept. This was mixed in with a group of LIRR historical ephemera that was being sorted.

This was a typewritten document of a single page with this description:

PUSH-PULL TRAIN OPERATION
A train will consist of a standard diesel locomotive on one end, a power car on the other end and about six
converted 2800 series cars in between. The standard locomotive used will be one of our regular passenger
locomotives. The power car is a converted ALCO locomotive. They will supply 600 volt power for heat, light
and air conditioning on the 2800 Series cars. The power car will also have a push-pull control station cab
to operate the train in the opposite direction.

LOCOMOTIVES
Any of our standard passenger locomotives can be used in this service. There will be a slight modification of
passenger locomotives before they are used. The signal system will have an electric buzzer in addition to the
standard air signal. The car brake system will be essentially the same. The double heading cock will be in the
single locomotive position. The double heading cock on the power car must be set for single locomotives and
not double headed.

POWER CARS
There will be a total of six power cars in operation. These power cars are from converted ALCO freight
locomotives. The diesel engines and and main generators will be operated at constant speed/voltage
(650 volts DC). This DC power will be trainlined into the 2800 series cars. The purpose of the power
cars is to supply 600 volt power to operate the heat, air-conditioning, lights and all auxiliaries on the
cars. The power car cab will also contain a push-pull station. The push-pull station will be trainlined
through the 2800 Series cars by way of a new 27 point jumper to the locomotive on the other end of
the train. The diesel engine in the power car will not supply any of the traction power for the train.
This will only supply power to operate the features in the 2800 Series cars.

2800 SERIES CARS
There is a total of 44 cars in this service. They will be taken out of MU service for this conversion. These cars
have a standard 600 volt electrical system. All of the electrical system will be maintained as is. The contact
shoes and shoe beam will be removed because the power for these cars will now come from the power car.
A 27 point jumper will pass through each of these cars to carry the push-pull feature from the power car to
the locomotive. The air door system on these cars will still be in operation. The number of 2800 Series cars
that can operate in any train will vary up to a maximum of 8 cars. Each of the odd-numbered cars will be
equipped with a lavatory. These cars are all air-conditioned. The cars will have the old 4 point jumper for
the 600 volt positive line. The cars will also have a new pair of jumpers for the 600 volt negative line. The
negative line is necessary because these trains will operate in territory where the rails do not have traction
bonds.

Another interesting observation is that this document had a hand-drawn example train on its heading with
these car and locomotive numbers left to right: 1556(RS3); 2801, 2802, 2843, 2844 and PC-6. (original
power cab class). The original six FA2 power cabs (later nicknamed "Power Packs") were 601 to 606.

The original push-pull concept was a success and would be used for around 30 years in LIRR service
from 1971 to 2000.
More former MU cars and other locomotives would be later converted over time for train service.

I typed out the text of this document since I have no scanning capability...MACTRAXX

[RGlueck]

Very good report on the original concept. It must have proven itself, considering how many FA locomotives were acquired and how many lasted into preservation. The Push-Pulls went through some growing pains, including a derailment I remember early on, just outside Smithtown and Stony Brook, involving 603. It was minor, but the train jumped the rails heading west that night. I should also point out, having ALCO FA cabs on the property was one of the more thrilling sights as we young photographers lined the trackside and clicked off an expanded ALCO fleet in action. When additional M1's made delivery, more 2800s were released and the BN (SP&F) FA1's arrived. Now things really got hot at trackside. I liked the original platinum and blue paint scheme best of all, but man, did they get dirty!
Good times.

[452 Card]

When the car wash at Richmond Hill was dead for a long time, we had a contest as to who had the filfthiest train. Some were covered with fur from oil from the P-unit stacks so thick that it seemed uncleanable. The Push-Pull trains on the Oyster Bay Branch seemed to be the worst, as they had no access to the LIC car wash. Eventually, the trains were deadheaded to the Babylon wash to try to clean the accumluated filth.

[RGlueck]

Okay, here's my question; why were the 244's yanked from some of the FA's and replaced with the sleds? Were any 244's stored as parts sources (at the time), and why were the FA1's chosen before the FA2's? Was the refit accomplished at Morris Park or elsewhere off the Island?

[nyandw]

When the car wash at Richmond Hill was dead for a long time, we had a contest as to who had the filfthiest train. Some were covered with fur from oil from the P-unit stacks so thick that it seemed uncleanable. The Push-Pull trains on the Oyster Bay Branch seemed to be the worst, as they had no access to the LIC car wash. Eventually, the trains were deadheaded to the Babylon wash to try to clean the accumluated filth.

Any photos of the Richmond Hill wash facility?

[nyandw]

During a recent RMLI visit I found a overview dating from 1971-1972 describing the then-new LIRR push-pull train service concept. This was mixed in with a group of LIRR historical ephemera that was being sorted.MACTRAXX

Nice! Is this a LIRR document? Dept, date, author, etc. so I can attribute it? Thank you.
Best

[krispy]

nyandw asked: Any photos of the Richmond Hill wash facility?

The new one is a tall shed like structure, the roof of which is visible from the west end of Jamaica station, you can see it sticking up to the left of the Van Wyck signal bridge. It does have 3rd rail to support washing MU's, which was happening back when they were rebuilding Babylon's wash. Wasn't sure if that was the only one in that area, I was curious if there was ever one in Morris Park also. What was the LIC car wash? The old one visible from Hunterspoint Ave station? Or was it somewhere else in LIC? TIA...


(edited due to messing up the quote)

[MACTRAXX]

During a recent RMLI visit I found a overview dating from 1971-1972 describing the then-new LIRR push-pull train service concept. This was mixed in with a group of LIRR historical ephemera that was being sorted.MACTRAXX

Nice! Is this a LIRR document? Dept, date, author, etc. so I can attribute it? Thank you.
Best

Steve: I found where this push-pull description came from...A LIRR Instruction Booklet
for Push-Pull Trains dated August 1971. It turns out that the first three pages had the
information that I previously posted beginning this topic.

I will add: SPECIAL CAUTIONS
Since push-pull trains operate in non-electrified areas where rails are not bonded for
650 volt return, the entire 650 volt circuit is self-contained - the return flow of current
is provided through the train itself to the power unit. That is what the new 1-point
jumpers are for. Modification of the CT-290 Electrical Operating Instructions covers
rules for handling jumpers in push-pull, but here are these reminders:
- Be sure there are two 4-point and two 1-point jumpers connected between cars and
between power unit and adjoining car. If one jumper is missing, all four should at that
point be disconnected.
- Be absolutely certain there is no electrical load on any 4-point of 1-point jumpers
before pulling or inserting it. Be certain the isolation switch on the back wall of the
power unit cab is in the idle, or shut-down position so the generator is not putting
current into the line.

MACTRAXX

[nyandw]

Steve: I found where this push-pull description came from...A LIRR Instruction Booklet for Push-Pull Trains dated August 1971. It turns out that the first three pages had the information that I previously posted beginning this topic. Noted and changed, Thank you.

I will add: SPECIAL CAUTIONS
Since push-pull trains operate in non-electrified areas where rails are not bonded for
650 volt return, the entire 650 volt circuit is self-contained - the return flow of current
is provided through the train itself to the power unit. That is what the new 1-point
jumpers are for. Modification of the CT-290 Electrical Operating Instructions covers
rules for handling jumpers in push-pull, but here are these reminders:
- Be sure there are two 4-point and two 1-point jumpers connected between cars and
between power unit and adjoining car. If one jumper is missing, all four should at that
point be disconnected.
- Be absolutely certain there is no electrical load on any 4-point of 1-point jumpers
before pulling or inserting it. Be certain the isolation switch on the back wall of the
power unit cab is in the idle, or shut-down position so the generator is not putting
current into the line.

Was this "Special Cautions" material within the first 3 pages, perhaps at the end? Thank you.
Steve

[MACTRAXX]

Steve: The Special Cautions were on the last page of the booklet...MACTRAXX
P.S. Happy (early) Thanksgiving!

[nyandw]

Steve: The Special Cautions were on the last page of the booklet...MACTRAXX
P.S. Happy (early) Thanksgiving!

Very nice material. Thank you for the effort to type and post. I placed it on the FA page: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrFA/lirrFA.htm

[BuddR32]

[/color]

I will add: SPECIAL CAUTIONS
Since push-pull trains operate in non-electrified areas where rails are not bonded for
650 volt return, the entire 650 volt circuit is self-contained - the return flow of current
is provided through the train itself to the power unit. That is what the new 1-point
jumpers are for. Modification of the CT-290 Electrical Operating Instructions covers
rules for handling jumpers in push-pull, but here are these reminders:
- Be sure there are two 4-point and two 1-point jumpers connected between cars and
between power unit and adjoining car. If one jumper is missing, all four should at that
point be disconnected.
- Be absolutely certain there is no electrical load on any 4-point of 1-point jumpers
before pulling or inserting it. Be certain the isolation switch on the back wall of the
power unit cab is in the idle, or shut-down position so the generator is not putting
current into the line.

This caution was in the CT-290 until about 2015 believe it or not. Took a long time after the cars left the property to get it changed.

[RGlueck]

Once again, why were certain FA power cars stripped of their 244 power plants and changed over to the Detroit Diesel sleds? These were mostly the ex- SP&S FA1's?

[Frank]

Considering that the LIRR ALCO FAs and the EMD F units had generators on them, how did the the old diesel fleet have HEP supplied to them when there was only MP15 and GP38s?

[MACTRAXX]

Frank: The LIRR 2900 series P72 coaches all had their own power plants/generators for heat, lights
and air conditioning which used diesel fuel. They were totally independent from locomotives.

The converted MU cars in the 2700 and 2800 series - MP 72 and MP 75 cars - needed electricity supplied
by the "power pack" FA and E control cab units to provide 650 volt DC third rail-type power.

This should explain the power supply difference for the older LIRR car fleet...MACTRAXX