LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

[keyboardkat]

They're gonna have to demolish Nassau Tower, and cut through the eastbound platform. The current eastbound platform will become an island platform, and I don't know if they'll have another platform on the south side of the new track.

But it's tough to lose Nassau tower, which has been there since before I was a kid. And the remnants of the old CLP connecting track (a curved retaining wall under the Mineola Blvd. bridge), and, well, nothing stays the same. I wonder what the comparable cost would be of reactivating the Central line east of Garden City, as opposed to building a third track on the main line. It would mean construction of a new bridge across the Meadobrook Parkway, and LIPA having to remove those high tension towers in the ROW through Levittown. And you'd have all the NIMBYs in Levittown and Island Trees up in arms. But on the other hand, there's no traffic on that line right now (not even a track as you get east of the old Mitchell Field) and thus he job could be done without disrupting current train traffic. And since the ROW is already there, demolition of buildings in the way would be unnecessary. And that ROW already belongs to the MTA, as successor to the Central Railroad of Long Island. Wouldn't that be something! But it'll never happen.

[Andrew]

Why remove crossings? Many railroads have multiple track main lines with grade crossings. I don't think half the crossings could be seperated from the rails.

lirr415-Peter

I am against ANY of the crossings being moved.I was just speculating as to what may or may not happen.

[cpontani]

The stretch through New Hyde Park is especially dangerous for grade crossings. Now you're going to have MORE trains going through there with the third track? I say that so long as there's three tracks, they NEED to grade-separate all crossings or close them.

[Amtrak7]

Reactivating the Central Branch is actually cheaper and easier:

Expensive parts of the project-

Under/Overpasses for the Wantagh, Meadowbrook, RT 106, RT 107, N Wantagh Rd., RT 135, Bethpage St. PKWY
Some local roads will have to be grade crossings, which is what the community opposition comes from. Noise isn't a problem if there aren't stations or crossings that generate horn noise.
A SMALL amount of property will need to be acquired.
Potential Hempstead Br. upgrade needed if to be 2 tracks.

Vs. 3rd track-

Property acquisition alone is generating opposition
Grade crossings to eliminate, over/underpasses to enlarge


To reduce opposition, run all trains via Main Line whenever possible.
Run trains via Central only for RH peak-direction only.
This frees up reverse-peak capacity.

[cpontani]

Let's be honest here...reactivating the Central Branch in Garden City will be the biggest challenge, as you'd think they'd lawyer up the quickest, and possibly have the income to do so. There will be grade crossing there, as well as through Levittown, which will require horns, and the noise NIMBY's love to hate.

However, it would provide all kinds of flexibility to the entire system. And a local stop in Levittown or East Meadow would be great for local residents, too. Politically, it's about as unfavorable as they get, save the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway being built to completion to Rye.

[keyboardkat]

I think most of the NIMBY's would be the folks whose homes face the ROW on either side. Right now they have a wide grass-covered median (with LIPA power towers in it). But they'd have a double-track high speed electrified railroad right in front of their homes instead, and they'd scream about property values going down, as well as noise.

But sometimes it's a matter of the greatest good for the greatest number. I'd really like to see this happen (of course, I don't live there facing the ROW. I'ts not my ox being gored). But it would effectively add two tracks' capacity, instead of adding one.

As far as modifications to the Hempstead branch just east of Garden City, well, the Central line used to be double-tracked. They'd just have to put it back the way it was, with a facing-point crossover to put westbound trains from Hempstead onto the westbound main track. (Imagine if the FIre Department would give back the old Clinton Road station for railroad use. It's been a firehouse for years).

[Andrew]

This is why it is so difficult to get things done.The NIMBY crow wants everything to be picture perfect at all time.

Nassau County is becoming like Queen with all of the traffic..ditto for Suffolk County.The LIRR has NO choice but to expand the RR.

The 3rd track should have been completed already.......probably would have been if not for all the posturing and delays.....its a miracle when it does eventually does start.

[hrfcarl]

Reactivating the Central from Garden City to Farmingdale had been discussed here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 63&t=52911

The closing of the Central Branch was the biggest mistake. Too bad Mr. Levitt and Mr. Moses did not have the foresight to see how this branch could have helped LI.

Only the 3rd Track is a project, but either face or would face NIMBY opposition, as does just about anything on LI. After funding ($), the biggest sticking points are: The 3rd Track involves the use of eminate domian while reactivation of the Central Branch involves putting trains behind peoples homes that had not been running there when homes were built (although with the relatively new development at the Main Line/Central Branch interchange eminate domain might be needed). As stated, the reactivation would give the greatest benefits. I would think the Central reactivation might stand a chance if it included buring the powerlines, trenching/fencing the tracks to reduce noise, the use of vehicle overpasses to eliminate grade crossings and adding stations on the train overpasses needed to cross the various parkways.

Since I know the 3rd Track is the project that is being pushed, I do not understand why the 3rd track was not added at Mineola when the Bus/Car/Train Intermodal project was being done. Concrete and brick work was laid where the track is suppose to go, why was the track not added then to make Mineola 3 track station like Hicksville or Babylon?

In any event, I doubt any of these projects done in my life time.

[jayrmli]

Robert Moses had no desire to increase rail transportation at all. You've heard the expression "It's my way or the highway." With him, the highway was his way, and his only way.

While some of his ideas may have been visionary, they are now costing New York through an outdated transportation network that will cost (at least) billions to correct.

Jay

[cpontani]

It's no state secret that Bob Moses was no fan of the railroads. He did many things to block rail development, like making the 2nd level of the Verrazanno for vehicular traffic, not subways. He built the Van Wyck with no wide center median purposely so they couldn't build what would have been the AirTrain decades ago.

It's also no accident that there were no provisions left for a rail station in Levittown. I thought the rail line was key to bring in building materials, but wasn't needed after that.

Just because Clinton Road's station house is now being occupied by the fire department, there's still no reason you can't put platforms there. TVM's on the platforms is all they'd get anyway.

While some of Moses' tactics were questionable at best, many of us pine for a "master builder" that could get things done, build projects that would provide construction jobs and rail-related jobs (due to expanded service). But in today's climate, it's nearly impossible.

[Amtrak7]

Does anyone have a link to the DEIS for the 3rd track project?

If they do, what are the alternatives?

[Diverging Route]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longi ... 3066.story
BY STEVE RITEA | [email protected]
July 11, 2008
Dramatic MTA funding shortfalls will likely delay the Long Island Rail Road's controversial plan to establish a third track along a heavily trafficked 10-mile section of its main line between Hicksville and Floral Park, railroad president Helena Williams said Thursday.
Williams stressed that the so-called "third track" project remains a vital part of the railroad's planned eventual connection with Grand Central Station.
"A third track on the main line will always be something we're committed to," she said. "It remains a priority."
Williams favors delay of the estimated $1.5-billion third track project over a stall in completion of the LIRR/Grand Central link -- also known as East Side Access -- by 2015. The cost of that immense undertaking has ballooned from $6.4 billion to $7.2 billion in the past year alone, officials said..... use link for the rest.

All I have to say is Keep waiting next year it will explode to $2.0 billion then, $2.5 then, who knows what! It keeps growing, and growing and growing.......

Someone should point out to Ms. Williams that Grand Central Station is a post office. The trains go to Grand Central Terminal.

[SaintSpellCheck]

I dont think there will be an Island Platform on the eastbound side at Mineola.
The third track will be where the Platform is, and the Platform will be south of that third track.
Third track is visable in the backgound.

[cpontani]

I don't see any room for an insland platform anywhere. Just look at the Mineola Ave Bridge...there's just enough room for the third track.

[oknazevad]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longi ... 3066.story
BY STEVE RITEA | [email protected]
July 11, 2008
Dramatic MTA funding shortfalls will likely delay the Long Island Rail Road's controversial plan to establish a third track along a heavily trafficked 10-mile section of its main line between Hicksville and Floral Park, railroad president Helena Williams said Thursday.
Williams stressed that the so-called "third track" project remains a vital part of the railroad's planned eventual connection with Grand Central Station.
"A third track on the main line will always be something we're committed to," she said. "It remains a priority."
Williams favors delay of the estimated $1.5-billion third track project over a stall in completion of the LIRR/Grand Central link -- also known as East Side Access -- by 2015. The cost of that immense undertaking has ballooned from $6.4 billion to $7.2 billion in the past year alone, officials said..... use link for the rest.

All I have to say is Keep waiting next year it will explode to $2.0 billion then, $2.5 then, who knows what! It keeps growing, and growing and growing.......

Someone should point out to Ms. Williams that Grand Central Station is a post office. The trains go to Grand Central Terminal.

Being that it is not a direct quote, I'm pretty sure that it was a Newsday screw up, not the oft maligned LIRR president.