• Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by RGlueck
Interesting approach to a restoration question. Getting the locomotive ready to operate and accommodating the needs of the LIRR might just do it. Give them a flawless locomotive with compliance to the operating standards required. Run it off the Island to show that it's entirely functional and reliable, then let them designate what they need.
Frankly, I don't think there is a mindset which has a sign hanging in Jamaica or Albany which reads "Above all else don't run steam". I sincerely believe it can be done with every agency coming out feeling positive and accomplished. Re-thinking the approach once the locomotive is completed can be the tipping point.
Good argument!
  by R36 Combine Coach
The funny thing to admit is that BRW 60, a FRA certified steam locomotive was on the island in 1967 or 1968.
  by workextra
There are several steam restoration projects that have been conducted and completed in the time and less than the LI engines had. I understand there is not a competition.
But we have to as ourselves where did we go wrong. Once that’s understood and we can agree on a common denominator and in some cases the locomotive owners agree to concessions that neither will be thrilled with but the benefits of a fully qualified operational locomotive is the end result.

Can it be achieved I think so. But not until we ask the tough questions and “pound the spikes” to correct the mistakes wipe the slate clean and start from scratch.

As for LIRR having a no steam policy.
That’s absolutely not the case.
LIRR has a culture issue not a bo steam issue.
There is plenty of guys in the company that “Can do” if given the opportunity. And like it or not, it’s those guys who will answer the call when the MTA or LIRR wants to do something.

Remember 90% of the folks it’s “just a a job” it’s a pay check. Come to work, Go home, and collect. They can care less about heritage.
The loss of extensive railroad knowledge over the last 25-30 years in addition to the major industry changes all contribute to the problems of LIRR operations a locomotive, but it’s not totally impossible.
It CAN be done, and LIRR has NO official “BAN” on steam.
Frankly they never been provided with a acceptable READY TO RUN cab signal equipped steam locomotive to run.
So now TODAY the locomotive owners AFTER the locomotive meets all the above, they now have to work with the host railroad (LIRR) to meet their requirements of ACSES PTC.
Yea this CAN be done.
But the movement needs to be completely overhauled.

2034 is the 200th anniversary of LIRRs charter it’s 12 years out, CAN the LI steam owners present the LIRR and MTA a fully FRA certified area locomotive in 12 years?

BTW, the oil conversion should be seriously considered for the many reason Ed at UP has stated.
As much as I want coal. It’s not really functional if it’s intended to run on the modern LIRR.
Also note the locomotive owners should seriously consider going over the G5s clearance diagram with the new high platforms it’s been a while since the last time this was done.
  by workextra
Hi guys.
Check this video out
These guys built this from the ground up.
They didn’t have all the parts ready just needing cleaning, repair or some
They didn’t have a boiler or fire box.
So if there is a will there is a way.

The goal is this.
Let’s get 1 steam locomotive fully certified by 2033. That’s roughly 10 years form now. And we’ll within reach.
Can this be achieved? Or is this a pipe dream?

If this is unrealistic, then let’s just stuff and mount the Locomotive, and put a sign saying we tried for 40 years and couldn’t do it.
  by RGlueck
At the present, I think OBRM has a plan which might potentially bear fruit. Getting the 35 together again, recovering all her pieces and parts and assembling the locomotive in near working condition will help revive some interest in an operable G5s. Ideally, both 35 & 39 could be rebuilt and operate, but I'll be happy with either being the starter.
  by workextra
To my knowledge. There was a plan to reacquaint all the parts together and assembled the locomotive so it can be rolled on and off the table.
If this is indeed their plan. I’m all in.
At least I’ll see a assembled G5 on LI again.
hopefully see this will help make more people part with their money to help restore steam.
That said, like it or no damn near 11%+ inflation plus the “Long Island tax” everything is just more here regardless.
I don’t see a path forward.
  by RGlueck
People have money for what they want. Inflation will eventually even out, although it will likely never disappear.. I agree with your viewpoint regarding an assembled and greased G5s. Getting it under a shed roof will be another important step to protect it. Having an LIRR steam locomotive with all moving parts lubricated, cleaned and properly fitted, will make a difference. The 35 needs heavy boiler repairs and tender repairs or replacement. Getting the tender repaired can happen along the way. Once it's been established that an intact and operating G5s is potentially available, we may see movement.
At age 72, I have to face the likelihood that I'll only see an operating G5s in heaven.
  by workextra
I’m not an affiliate or involved in any why with oyster bay.
But if their supposed plan works out to have the running gear and maybe air brakes functional.
Then a full rebuild/replacement to the tank can be conducted.
The absolute last item to be restored/rebuilt/replaced would be the boiler so you’re not burning valuable time on your 1472 clock.
It is my opinion that they produce a 90% complete locomotive with the last 10% being the boiler/firebox having to be completed,
At that point you get your donations in, motivation would be much higher and your not wasting service time on a boiler that’s been certified and sitting for 10 years on a non operational locomotive.

On steam there is no such thing as done.
There’s always work for I be done on it even after it’s retuned to service.
Once you have that you want to keep it in the he absolute best possible shape than it’s ever been it’s entire service life.

That care will make the future restorations and 15yr inspections much easier and affordable.
  by Mr rt
I just don't see steam EVER being a reality on LI ... let's compare:
- Essex has at least 3 working: 40, 97, 3025
- Strasburg halso has at least 3 working: 89, 90, 475
- IRM has 2 & is working on a 3rd: 1630, 5
- vs. Steamtown with their 0-6-0, think it's out of service now
Essex, Strasburg & IRM have their own RxR to run on, Steamtown has to ask permission, they been running diesel.
You have to have multiple engines to run a money making program at Christmas time, because you have to have at least one ready to go every year. Essex & Strasburg runs a pair every year & make lots of money.
I don't see LIRR allowing steam on Oyster Bay branch, because you are always going to have conflicts with passenger service, but to Greenpoint, in the Fall, the LIRR could easily switch to bus service & allow steam there.
How about a dinner train using a GE 25 tonner, nah not enough power for a power car & dinners.
Essex uses GE 44 tonners on its dinner train to save the clock on it's steam engines.
Riverhead has a RS-3 but that's another story
  by workextra
write your congressman and demand a carve out for “historic locomotives”
Defined as all steam, and diesels built prior to 1970.
should exempted (steam) or-be granted a case by case exemption (diesel) for the installation of PTC.
UP killed mainline steam when Ed said he can make it work with the big boy. He forgot or didn’t care that the little guys can’t compete and afford PTC.

That said, Long Island still has its other logistical issues but those with an exemption on PTC would be easy to overcome.
Let’s call a bad deal a bad deal.
The 39 agreement Is a disgrace, that frankly a student in accounting could
Have done a better job.
Compounding interest??? The loan inflates it’s self every year it exits run funded.
Bring 39 home and refund the donated.
Enough already. Maybe one day a new generation will be able to sort through the shit that’s been the 39 program and get it going with proper manpower and financial backing, but in the local climate I don’t see that as an option.

It’s a good intention but all around it’s a disaster for LI preservation and only done to make one man look like a hero.
While “getting rid” Of the problem (39).

On this note. The remaining P72s are too far gone and should be scrapped. I don’t see any donations coming it for them? No one cares, or puts the money out, so let’s scrap them. Plenty exist in various shapes, forms and conditions in the ownership of successful organization.

The P72s are only useful if there was going to be a mainline excursion in the days before lawyers and PTC killed it.
  by workextra
Hey all?
What’s the opinion of the LIRR community to see the last 3 P72s on LI to be potentially scrapped?
If their condition deteriorates much more they won’t be worth saving,
So I’m interested in if the community thinks they should be cut up or saved?
Note: there are plenty around and some in servcie in much better shape, and 2 beautifully restored to LIRR modernization era colors.
Note: they won’t be running over LIRR mainlines with the current regulations.
  by ConstanceR46
nobody wants them to be scrapped and posting about how they will be is fearmongering and stirring the pot at best and slandering at worst. Twin Forks has done a hell of a lot over the past couple years, and i'm sure they're competent caretakers for the 2900s they have. It's not like RMLI's one is in terrible shape either; and it's a downright falsehood to claim they're letting it rot to the ground for the fuck of it.

stop fearmongering and volunteer, or donate, maybe. it's more useful than ranting here
  by workextra
I’m curious as to the vibe. I doubt they will be scrapped until they become a serious threat to safety.
Thankfully the MTA as permitted work to get back under way on the b&m car and the other stuff.
But time and finances are the issue.
If you have any ideas or ways to help twin forks raise money for the p72s it’s a ball park 200k to make one fully operational.
If someone wants to donate That, I bet they’ll be game to restore one.

However that still don’t address the issues with them running on modern LIRR.
pm Me if you want to discuss it?
  by ConstanceR46
They can restore them without running them. Twin Forks isn't looking at making them fully operational and FRA-approved; unless i'm mistaken, they're looking at making them decent looking.

We probably won't see excursions on the LIRR for a long while.
  by workextra
The P72s need a lot of work.
Overall they can be moved by rail and would pass an air test, but they’re nowhere in a condition that would be safe to carry passengers.
In the ballpark of $100-$200k per car to make them mainline excursion ready, maybe more.

If you been following Twin Forks, they we’re working on the B&M (P74) Car. Before the plague struck.
With that settled they should be back to work soon.
If anyone is interested in donating to them and or signing up to volunteer please reach out. They can use the help.
The more Welders they can get the more work they can complete.
Anyone with a higher power welder generator they can loan or donate?
I heard one of their welders were asking about that.
The sooner they can address some sight issues and get back to work on the p74 the sooner they can attack other projects.
Stabilization at this point is a priority

I hate to see anything in preservation scrapped, but in relation to LI, it seems this is not the proper venue for railroad preservation. Too many factions working against one another and there is all talk on what to save and to fix it. But only a few actually putting out to effect it
Every $$ counts. If you can donate your time or skill donate them something.
Especially if you don’t want those p72s to be scrapped.
They will Likely be lost if the organization cannot get sufficient funding from the rail community for their restoration.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
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