Mayor, NICTD to seek funds for South Shore study (M City)

[railroaddumdum49]

I disagree Mr. Lurker. NICTD is a rail line between Chicago and South Bend, with parking lots dotted along its route through Northern Indiana. This has caused a drain of resources out of Indiana. NICTD created this separation and they continue to distance themselves from other transportation agencies. The problem isn't the people of Michigan City, the problem is the people at NICTD.

[justalurker66]

I disagree Mr. Lurker. NICTD is a rail line between Chicago and South Bend, with parking lots dotted along its route through Northern Indiana. This has caused a drain of resources out of Indiana. NICTD created this separation and they continue to distance themselves from other transportation agencies. The problem isn't the people of Michigan City, the problem is the people at NICTD.

You are right about it being a line between Chicago and South Bend ... what is the quickest route between Chicago and South Bend? With the 11th St alignment removed the quickest would be following CSX around the south side of town. In a few years that line will be a reality.

Certain citizens of Michigan City want the South Shore along the lake front ... but others are dead set against that. I don't see any strong level of dislike for the southern route other than the loss of the yet to be developed Karwick Rd park and where the new car yard will be built. The idea for the station to be east of town on 212 was also floated by a resident - and quite frankly that might be the best option for NICTD. A parking lot where people from LaPorte county and Michigan can park and ride.

The citizens and city board didn't seem to be too impressed by "Transit Oriented Development" ... and if they don't want to participate there really is no reason for the line to go through town.

If it were up to NICTD the line would be through town where it could serve the downtown community. If there is enough opposition to kill the 11th St route there is enough opposition to kill the northern routes as well. The people of Michigan City and their leaders have spoken.

[jpIllInoIs]

I hope NICTD is keeping up with the Michigan DOT plans to transfer the Pere Marquette to the Amtrak owned tracks which would combine all Michigan Services Amtrak trains through DT Michigan City. It seems the Downtown options for NICTD reroute make the most sense for inter-modal transit connections.

[justalurker66]

I hope NICTD is keeping up with the Michigan DOT plans to transfer the Pere Marquette to the Amtrak owned tracks which would combine all Michigan Services Amtrak trains through DT Michigan City. It seems the Downtown options for NICTD reroute make the most sense for inter-modal transit connections.

That is the first I've heard of it. Got a reference?

[jpIllInoIs]

Right here..

http://www.cityofnewbuffalo.org/railroad.asp


CSX - Amtrak Owned track connection

Grant application by City of New Buffalo, Michigan DOT endorsed by Amtrak and City Grand Rapids. Would add a connection NE of New Buffalo to allow the Pere Marquette to access to the upgraded Amtrak owned track from New Buffalo to Porter,IN. This would combine all of Michigan Amtrak services on one lime through Indiana and SW Michigan. By completing this connection Grand Rapids riders could transfer at New Buffalo for points East in Michigan and vice versa. This would take the Pere Marquette off of the CSX on the East side of Michigan City and combine it with the Michigan service through DT Michigan City.

[justalurker66]

Ah, a new project. Most of the planning for Michigan City was done before that announcement. I'm not sure how moving that train would affect the attitude. It could be just one more pair of trains to compete with with a north side alignment.

Unless a stop is added in Michigan City (only two eastbound and one westbound of the current Amtraks through Michigan City stop) there is not much use for an intermodal center. Most of the northern proposals put the NICTD station away from the Amtrak station - although it was noted in the public hearings that once a route is selected the location of the new station has some flexibility.

[justalurker66]

The City of Michigan City and NICTD Announce the Selection of a Preferred Alignment for the Existing
South Shore Rail Line

The Realignment Study Management Oversight Group comprised of representatives from Michigan City and NICTD (Northern
Indiana Commuter Transportation District) selects Option 6, which follows US12 between NIPSCO and crosses Trail Creek, with a
low level fixed bridge, as the preferred alignment for the South Shore Line.

JULY 9, 2012, MICHIGAN CITY, IN… The City of Michigan City and NICTD announced through the Management Oversight
Group for the Alternative Realignment Study, the selection of a preferred alignment for the existing South Shore Rail Line. Mayor
Ron Meer stated “this selection reflects the greatest opportunity to promote rail safety and economic development for the residents of
Michigan City and to maximize the strengths of our existing business hubs, such as the central business district, Lighthouse Mall, Blue
Chip Casino, and the Marina Area”.

Documents at http://emichigancity.com/cityhall/depar ... /index.htm

Public Open House
August 16, 2012 from 5:00pm - 8:00pm

[BrianLM007]

So it looks like a northern alignment...I'm surprised this is the preferred option. Any guesses if the new line is actually built along this alignment?

[JLJ061]

I'm not surprised by this. The railroad sees this as the least costly alignment, since it doesn't require a complete rebuilding of the Shops yard like the southern alignment would have needed.

[justalurker66]

I'm not surprised by this. The railroad sees this as the least costly alignment, since it doesn't require a complete rebuilding of the Shops yard like the southern alignment would have needed.

Based on the presentations to the city council in February (that was later repeated to the public) ... Option 6 was the second most expensive path. $205.8 million.

The southern route with a new yard was estimated at $222.9 million. The least costly options were options 3 and 4 --- estimated at $93 million. Both would have followed the path of the existing connection to the Amtrak line, crossing over Amtrak using switches instead of a diamond. Option 3 would have turned south before Trail Creek (running through the boat yard and any future development). Option 4 would have turned south down the Nickle Plate (as option 6 does).

The elevated option (#5) was slightly cheaper than the chosen option at $196.6 million. The 10th/11th St option (#1) was close to the least expensive at $102.4 million (although that is the modified version that used the street ROW for the railroad blocking access to the homes along the south side of the street without purchasing those homes).

The path chosen makes crossing Amtrak easier (a diamond instead of switches) and kick starts redevelopment north of US 12. It seems odd to have Michigan Boulevard come in to town from the East with all its newly installed planters/etc end at a two lane US 12 but that appears to be the plan.

[railroaddumdum49]

Right here..

http://www.cityofnewbuffalo.org/railroad.asp


CSX - Amtrak Owned track connection

Grant application by City of New Buffalo, Michigan DOT endorsed by Amtrak and City Grand Rapids. Would add a connection NE of New Buffalo to allow the Pere Marquette to access to the upgraded Amtrak owned track from New Buffalo to Porter,IN. This would combine all of Michigan Amtrak services on one lime through Indiana and SW Michigan. By completing this connection Grand Rapids riders could transfer at New Buffalo for points East in Michigan and vice versa. This would take the Pere Marquette off of the CSX on the East side of Michigan City and combine it with the Michigan service through DT Michigan City.

This grant request was denied. But connecting the two Michigan lines makes sense. It sure is interesting that Federal Mogul closed up their shop that was adjacent to the old connection of the CSX and NICTD lines just a month ago. Perhaps there are thoughts of a reconnect at this site with NICTD which would lead to another connection with the Amtrak line after the NICTD relocation takes place.

[justalurker66]

This grant request was denied. But connecting the two Michigan lines makes sense.

Perhaps. For one train each way it was probably just too expensive.

It sure is interesting that Federal Mogul closed up their shop that was adjacent to the old connection of the CSX and NICTD lines just a month ago. Perhaps there are thoughts of a reconnect at this site with NICTD which would lead to another connection with the Amtrak line after the NICTD relocation takes place.

I don't see the connection between moving jobs to Mexico and reconnecting CSX and NICTD. If another business takes over the Royal Rd property and wishes to be rail served either CSS or CSX could provide service. Even with the new "northern route" in place I don't see Amtrak using it to get between their line and CSX.

With the current plan for "Option 6" it would take a move off of the Amtrak line just west of the station onto the CSS line next to the NIPSCO yard running down to wherever NICTD and CSS tracks connect (currently "Power" at CP 36.0 with no new connections to the east noted on the plan). Then the train would have to run on the new NICTD line across the new Amtrak diamond down the old Nickle Plate past shops and up into the former exchange yard before finding it's way onto the CSX.

In a massive emergency reroute situation (such as the last time Amtrak ran on NICTD) it might be workable and restoring the CSS/CSX connection would allow a Grand Rapids train to use NICTD through Michigan City to that removed connection ... but unless there is another reason to restore that connection (regular interchange between CSS and CSX) I don't see it being done.

[railroaddumdum49]

I apologize for being unclear in stating the connection between jobs going to Mexico and a CSX/NICTD connection at Royal Rd. The congestion in the South Shore Freight yard will cause problems for the project and a new location for the freight yard & shops might be a solution; a location like the property Federal Mogal vacated would better serve everyone.

[justalurker66]

I apologize for being unclear in stating the connection between jobs going to Mexico and a CSX/NICTD connection at Royal Rd. The congestion in the South Shore Freight yard will cause problems for the project and a new location for the freight yard & shops might be a solution; a location like the property Federal Mogal vacated would better serve everyone.

I wouldn't mind seeing the CSS classification yard moved to the Federal Mogul property. It would help free up the space along the Nickle Plate ROW west of the shops for a two track main. CSS would still need to be able to use a track or two to bring in or send out Kingsbury trains - but the classification yard could be moved. I assume the ROW between Michigan Ave and Shops will be lost when the project is completed.

When Option 2 (following the CSX track) was still in consideration, NICTD would have needed a new car yard east of Karwick Rd ... Federated Mogul would have served that use (if they would have known it was becoming available).

[justalurker66]

The public meeting to announce/explain the choice of Option 6 was held tonight. A lot of angry people ... mostly angry because they did not get their way.

First of all ... the program. City Hall was open from 5pm-8pm with displays set up in a large conference room and a 20 minute powerpoint scheduled at 5pm and 6:30pm in the council chambers. At least that was what was supposed to happen. I arrived slightly after 5pm toward the end of the first presentation. When the presentation ended the presenter asked for questions ... what he got included a lot of angry speeches with the primary question being "is this decision final"?

I hate to think that this will be just another study after 40 years of working to reroute trains through Michigan City ... and the path they have chosen will be thrown out again in some political play. But if some in the angry mob had it's way that is exactly what would be done. The "do nothing" voice was loud.

For the first forty minutes of questions answers were offered ... different people from the project tried to respond. Some (but not all) of the speeches were responded to - especially when there were factual errors. But as the time was consumed the meeting moved into unanswered mode with people offering their speeches and questions with no response. Finally as the time for the second presentation approached questions were cut off.

The second presentation started late (after clearing the room of the people who didn't want to see it again - some stayed for the second show). Some of the same people who commented after the first presentation spoke again after the second (didn't we hear you the first time?). It seemed that there was some grandstanding going on. But with less people in the room questions were cut off after about 40 minutes and the remainder of the time was spent in private conversation.

I spoke to John Parsons and a couple of board members after the sessions. They were open and polite. Nice people.


As for the plan ... a two track main from Power to Shops - the CSS classification yard moved southwest of the main lines. And a connection from Amtrak east of the drawbridge to connect to the new NICTD line north of US 12.

The bridge over Trail Creek will be a fixed span 15ft above the high water mark. The presenter says that the approval for that has been negotiated.

Option 6 has been split into two options ... Option 6A and 6B. One plans a two lane US 12 and NICTD line within the current US 12 ROW. The other keeps US 12 at four lanes but would put the tracks north of the current US 12 - requiring additional property acquisition.


One thing that did not go over well was the conceptual drawings. Along with the actual railroad relocation, the conceptual drawings included all the new buildings that could be built (with additional money from unnamed developers) as part of the Transit Oriented Development. Unfortunately instead of being seen as a glimpse of how Michigan City could use the rail relocation as a springboard for development it was seen as a promise of future development that would not be kept. The people at the meeting did not buy into the vision.