Discussion related to commuter rail and rapid transit operations in the Chicago area including the South Shore Line, Metra Rail, and Chicago Transit Authority.

Moderators: JamesT4, metraRI

  by wilmette2008
 
Wonder why they called CPD to perform the arrest instead of arresting the guy himself?
  by justalurker66
 
wilmette2008 wrote:Wonder why they called CPD to perform the arrest instead of arresting the guy himself?
It seemed to be the fastest way to get him off of the train. Perhaps you would have preferred a Delta style drag out of the car?

Watch the tape. He was trying to deescalate the situation ... get off the train ... we'll get you a refund ... but he would not listen. The drunken person asked for "county" ... apparently thinking like some people here that railroad police are not real police. So despite the continued delay he figured that the the guy might respect a CPD more than him. At that point the issue wasn't what authority the railroad police has ... the issue was resolving the situation by getting him off the train. The officer's goal wasn't to be a macho "I'll take you down" tough guy boosting his own ego and escalating the problem. It was to remove the inebriated passenger and get the train moving.
  by qboy
 
wilmette2008 wrote:Wonder why they called CPD to perform the arrest instead of arresting the guy himself?
Seeing that this video is a few years old he looks like one the hired security personnel. Who in a lot of cases were and are off duty local cops, sheriffs, and correctional officers trying to make some extra money. Its usually the case to call whatever local police to get the passenger off the train. There not trying to take him Arlington Hts or Harvard. Getting the individual off the train the sooner is usually better. But sometimes its easier on inbound trains to take them all the way to the city especially if its an express train or if your trying to keep it a surprise for the individual causing trouble it depends on the situation at the time. I've seen where the security personnel has detained individuals till local police arrive too it just depends on the situation.
  by wilmette2008
 
qboy wrote:
wilmette2008 wrote:Wonder why they called CPD to perform the arrest instead of arresting the guy himself?
Seeing that this video is a few years old he looks like one the hired security personnel. Who in a lot of cases were and are off duty local cops, sheriffs, and correctional officers trying to make some extra money. Its usually the case to call whatever local police to get the passenger off the train. There not trying to take him Arlington Hts or Harvard. Getting the individual off the train the sooner is usually better. But sometimes its easier on inbound trains to take them all the way to the city especially if its an express train or if your trying to keep it a surprise for the individual causing trouble it depends on the situation at the time. I've seen where the security personnel has detained individuals till local police arrive too it just depends on the situation.
Do the Railroad Police or CPD meet the train downtown?
  by qboy
 
wilmette2008 wrote:
qboy wrote:
wilmette2008 wrote:Wonder why they called CPD to perform the arrest instead of arresting the guy himself?
Seeing that this video is a few years old he looks like one the hired security personnel. Who in a lot of cases were and are off duty local cops, sheriffs, and correctional officers trying to make some extra money. Its usually the case to call whatever local police to get the passenger off the train. There not trying to take him Arlington Hts or Harvard. Getting the individual off the train the sooner is usually better. But sometimes its easier on inbound trains to take them all the way to the city especially if its an express train or if your trying to keep it a surprise for the individual causing trouble it depends on the situation at the time. I've seen where the security personnel has detained individuals till local police arrive too it just depends on the situation.
Do the Railroad Police or CPD meet the train downtown?
More likely now its gonna be Metra PD, but if they aren't available then its gonna CPD. In the past if the UP gumshoe as available then it would them or CPD.
  by wilmette2008
 
qboy wrote:
wilmette2008 wrote:
qboy wrote:
wilmette2008 wrote:Wonder why they called CPD to perform the arrest instead of arresting the guy himself?
Seeing that this video is a few years old he looks like one the hired security personnel. Who in a lot of cases were and are off duty local cops, sheriffs, and correctional officers trying to make some extra money. Its usually the case to call whatever local police to get the passenger off the train. There not trying to take him Arlington Hts or Harvard. Getting the individual off the train the sooner is usually better. But sometimes its easier on inbound trains to take them all the way to the city especially if its an express train or if your trying to keep it a surprise for the individual causing trouble it depends on the situation at the time. I've seen where the security personnel has detained individuals till local police arrive too it just depends on the situation.
Do the Railroad Police or CPD meet the train downtown?
More likely now its gonna be Metra PD, but if they aren't available then its gonna CPD. In the past if the UP gumshoe as available then it would them or CPD.
Have you ever seen a UP gumshoe (Police) place someone under arrest? Are UP gumshores ever in regular uniforms? I ask this because when every i've seen them they are usually in either plain clothes or the dark blue polo shirt. And what is with that silver door by the Metra Market that says,"UPPD" on it? Thanks.
  by qboy
 
Yeah I've seen them arrest individuals they are sworn officers! From what I've seen they wear whatever is required for duty I've seen some tactical type wear, polo shirts, I'll be honest I don't pay the much attention to what they wear.
  by eolesen
 
Why would you be surprised to see UPPD having an office at Olgilvie? Metra might be covering the commuter operation, but UP's Chicago Division is still based across the street in Riverside. Since there's no parking for police vehicles at Riverside, being down by the Market is probably more convenient.
  by justalurker66
 
wilmette2008 wrote:http://directives.chicagopolice.org/dir ... 21024.html See item VI, wonder who does the booking RRPD or CPD?
V. Nongovernmental Police Agencies
-- A. Verbatim text of pertinent statute (Railroads):
Railroads are authorized to maintain their own police or security force whose members shall exercise like police powers as those conferred upon the police of cities when engaged in the protection of railroad property and the protection of the persons and property of railroad passengers and employees (610 ILCS 80/2).

VI. Nongovernmental Police Agency Procedures
-- A. The Department will normally provide all required police services, (e.g., issuing traffic citations, case reporting, processing arrestees, inventorying property, and follow-up investigations) at locations within the City where nongovernmental institutions have established police or security forces when an incident requiring police action:
1. occurs on the property of the institution, or
2. involves an arrest by a nongovernmental agency peace officer.

VI. B. referrs to traffic violations which would be handled directly by the railroad police. It appears that CPD will provide police services to their fellow officers on the UP PD.

Amtrak, Metra and NICTD are government owned entities and their police forces fall under Governmental Police Agency rules. CPD will also cooperate with their fellow officers on these police forces.

Now, would you like to split hairs and argue over who has jurisdiction when there is an incident on a Metra owned rail car on a UP owned track? In either case the CPD will assist their fellow officers.
  by wilmette2008
 
qboy wrote:Yeah I've seen them arrest individuals they are sworn officers! From what I've seen they wear whatever is required for duty I've seen some tactical type wear, polo shirts, I'll be honest I don't pay the much attention to what they wear.
Let's use the situation with Lolla Kid as an example assuming it was a UP gum shoe that met the train downtown, what would he/she do if the kid was Drunk,and smarted off to the agent about RR Police not being real Police? Would the Gumshoe place him under arrest for Criminal Trespass to Property,Disorderly Conduct, and underage drinking/intoxication? Thanks.
  by eolesen
 
1) Isn’t the term gumshoe considered a bit insulting?...

2) mouthing off to a police officer is dumb, but not necessarily grounds for arrest - being rude is protected by the First Amendment

3) mouthing off to a police officer after committing a violation or alleged violation is more likely to result in being arrrested for said violation vs. getting a verbal warning
  by justalurker66
 
True. Contempt of police is not supposed to be a crime. Showing officers contempt is not a smart move.
  by wilmette2008
 
eolesen wrote:1) Isn’t the term gumshoe considered a bit insulting?...

2) mouthing off to a police officer is dumb, but not necessarily grounds for arrest - being rude is protected by the First Amendment

3) mouthing off to a police officer after committing a violation or alleged violation is more likely to result in being arrrested for said violation vs. getting a verbal warning
Ok here is the backround, a kid was seen by the engineer playing on the tracks in front of the Wilmette Depot. They tried to deny him boarding but he managed to slip on, the train called commuter control to have either Metra PD or a UP Special agent meet the train downtown and grab him. Lets assume that it a UP Special agent that grabbed the kid what he do if the kid mouthed off to him about RR Police not being police and he was intoxicated and under the drinking age. Would the agent place him under arrest for criminal trespass to property, Disorderly conduct, and Underage drinking/intoxication?
  by justalurker66
 
Too many IFs. It would be up to the officer to determine, following departmental policy, what actions should be taken. The officer would need to use their judgement of the situation at hand (not some Internet hypothetical) to make a determination.

Why not write UP and ask for a copy of their policy? You are not going to get a definitive answer on a public forum.

As for the policy of denying boarding to a trespasser, here is an article from 2004:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Faced with the daily danger of pedestrians running across railroad tracks or under lowered crossing gates to catch their trains, Metra crews are increasingly fighting back by refusing to allow the violators to board the train.

The lawbreakers are given the option of waiting for the next train or, if the offenders insist on getting onto the train that almost hit them, going to the police station.

It seems that in many cases, the threat of making a commuter late to work is more effective than the prospect of a fine ranging from $250 to $500 for being on the tracks or jumping crossing gates when a train is coming, railroad officials said.

"We support our crews' judgment to deny boarding to customers who put themselves in harm's way," said Metra spokesman Tom Miller. "We hope it would teach them a lesson."
Based on the 2004 story, the person in your story should have been cited for trespassing. I'll leave the hypothetical additional charges to the world of IF, since there is no proof the story ever happened. But I will say that the UP officer would have the authority to make an arrest regardless of if the kid believed he was an officer or not.