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 #160479  by doepack
 
Earlier this year, Trains magazine did an in-depth feature on Caltrain's commuter operations. I noticed that among the newest additions to the fleet of commuter locomotives are six MP36's from MPI, and as I understand it, this is the primary power used on the "baby bullet" runs.

Here in Chicago, Metra has had to address meeting the growing needs of its commuters by planning service expansions, while also modernizing its locomotive fleet. To that end, Metra has recently acquired 27 MP36's as part of its effort to meet these demands. In the two years since they've been on the property, however, there have been many mechanical problems with them. Everything from blown turbochargers, to computer malfunctions while loading, along with a host of other assorted difficulties.

So, what I'd like to know is, how have they fared in California? Have there been any problems with these locomotives, and if so, what degree of service disruptions (if any) have any of these caused? Thanks in advance...
 #160523  by fjcaron
 
I'm an Amtrak engineer, and work on the Caltrain property, so I can comment on the MP36 for you. Early on when we first got these engines on the property, the biggest issue was overspeed penalties, this was from slapping the throttle. Slapping the throttle refers to going from idle straight to run 8 and nothing in between, well the computer got all confused and caused the engine to go into overspeed. It happened to several engineers, it even happened to me and the prime mover shut down, but due to a faulty alternator we couldn't start it back up because the batteries were dead.....go figure on a new engine!

The other issue we were having was hunting at high speeds, not to say that 79mph is high speed, but when the engines first hit the property the fastest we would go with them was 75mph for a short stretch until the CTX project was complete and we started to run 79mph. We did run these units on the UP to Gilroy with no noticeable issues, these units tended to hunt moreso on track with concrete ties. When running on track with wooden ties the hunting (lateral) wasn't as noticeable. One of the mechanical gurus in San Jose came up with a fix for the engines, which was to recut the taper on the tread of the wheels. So one by one they were sent down to LAX to have the wheel treads recut and this fix worked. Some may not seeing pictures of the said movements on the Coast Starlight, and wondered the purpose of the F40PH-2 mixed into the consist as well. Reason being was very few engineers on "Big Amtrak" as it's refered to are qaulified on the 30CDW-E brake valve, let alone the characteristics of the new engines, so the F40 was put into the lead each time one was sent down south.

Once these units returned, and were put back into service, the hunting/lateral motion was gone, not even noticeable by any means. Other issues that I can think of were little things, like upgrading the software with regards to wheelslip issues, this conincided with the throttle slapping issues, which were resolved and now you can slap the throttle each time with no worries of going into overspeed penalty. Other than the aforementioned items, the units have proven to be very reliable and have a better availability rate than the F40's do. Of course given the age of the F40's, one could see the difference in availability rates.

One issue that was high on the list for engineers with regards to their biggest complaint was the use of the 30CDW-E brake valve with the Bombardier equipment. The Bombardier cars are set up for graduated release, whereas the older gallery cars are set up for direct release and electro-pneumatic braking. The E-P feature simply allows you to put the brake valve into the hold position, which will the EP braking holds the train at the station while you recharge your brake pipe, this was put into service back in the mid-80's when the new equipment came on line and the thinking was because of the short distances between stops. It's also useful for smoothing out your stop by going from hold to release a few times, or lap to release, either way it works.

Well the EP brake valve on the MP36's was being used with the Bombardier cars, and it made it extremely difficult (but not impossible) to make a smooth station stop. You had an engine set up for direct release, running with cars set up for graduated release and each time you graduated manually a quick motion from lap to release and back, if you did this more than two times you would loose all your air in the train and you'd have to go back after it quickly or you would overshoot the station. So it mean holding onto the air, and making a rough station stop, or power braking into each stop (which is prohibited as the powers that be want you to use blend on trains of less than 10 cars). Eventually we got the standard 30CDW put in on the units, and the software was upgraded.

All in all the units perform quite well, with the new 96-train schedule and 22- baby bullets being part of that, standard trainsets are being used for the express service as well as the MP36's and Bombardier cars. Funny how passengers get so used to a routine, whenever they see the standard gallery set pull up, they always ask "is this the baby bullet" as they are used to seeing the newer equipment.

Hope this answers your questions, feel free to ask anything else you might have questions about.


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[quote="doepack"]Earlier this year, Trains magazine did an in-depth feature on Caltrain's commuter operations. I noticed that among the newest additions to the fleet of commuter locomotives are six MP36's from MPI, and as I understand it, this is the primary power used on the "baby bullet" runs.

Here in Chicago, Metra has had to address meeting the growing needs of its commuters by planning service expansions, while also modernizing its locomotive fleet. To that end, Metra has recently acquired 27 MP36's as part of its effort to meet these demands. In the two years since they've been on the property, however, there have been many mechanical problems with them. Everything from blown turbochargers, to computer malfunctions while loading, along with a host of other assorted difficulties.

So, what I'd like to know is, how have they fared in California? Have there been any problems with these locomotives, and if so, what degree of service disruptions (if any) have any of these caused? Thanks in advance..

 #160528  by jg greenwood
 
Thanks Frank! Informative posts from the "real world" are priceless.

 #161124  by doepack
 
No doubt, these things are monsters, they're about as big as a four axle locomotive can be. At Metra, those huge fuel tanks enable them to make an average of four round trips per day. Currently, they're assigned to 4 lines, but shop forces and engineers are beginning to realize that these units tend to perform better on routes with longer distances between stations, which is probably why they've taken to the baby bullet service out there fairly well for the most part. I think most of the issues Metra is having with them can be chalked up to teething problems, but eventually, they'll be just fine. Thanks for the insight.

btw- Enjoyed those pics from your other post... very cool!!

 #161144  by octr202
 
Just curious...don't the Caltrain MP36's have 710 engines, while the Metra units are 645 prime movers? Does anyone know how many other systems differ between the two roads?

Just wondering exactly how similiar the two versions are.

 #161194  by doepack
 
Metra's MP36 has the 645 prime mover, for fleet commonality in terms of parts standardization with the other equipment on the roster. Also, HEP is controlled directly from the prime mover via an static inverter, rather than from an alternator (F40PH style). I don't know if this feature is standard on all MP36's, or if this is just a design unique to Metra. I'm also not certain as to the other possible technical similarities with Caltrains' MP36's, I just knew that they are the only other commuter agency besides Metra (so far) that has this power on its roster. Perhaps FJCaron, or someone else can fill in the rest of the blanks on the Caltrain specs...

 #161209  by fjcaron
 
The Caltrain MP36PH3-C's are pretty much the same when you look at the carbodies, and externally they are almost the same with the exception of Caltrain's having the 3-C designation for having a CAT HEP diesel motor to power the 480, where as Doepack pointed out about the Metra units having the static inverter. Unlike a standard F40PH-2 built as a screamer, when it's producing 900+ rpm to produce HEP in run 8, this is required to spin the HEG (Head End Generator) at a 2:1 gear ratio which in turn produces 1800+ rpm to spin the generator. The Metra units run at a maxium of run 3 I'm told and have read, so none of the ear pearcing high pitched idle as the F40PH-2's produce.

The Caltrain MP36's and the Metra's both have the same 645F3B, a older EMD design with flaws, that GE bought the patent to and modified to overcome the issues EMD had. The prime movers are built by GE of Poland, the 710G's are just too inefficent I'd say, I've heard of the Amtrak California units having nothing but problems with theirs. Other agencies may be in a different position, but we are talking Amtrak maintenance standards here. It' should also be pointed out that the Metra units were built brand new from the ground up, whereas the Caltrain order specified as many rebuilt parts to reduce the initial costs overall, such as rebuilt trucks, and main generators, etc. This information comes from a very well written and detailed account of the construction of both orders with plenty of photos in Diesel Era, I forget which issue.

Hope this helps, any more questions don't hesitate to ask.


octr202 wrote:Just curious...don't the Caltrain MP36's have 710 engines, while the Metra units are 645 prime movers? Does anyone know how many other systems differ between the two roads?

Just wondering exactly how similiar the two versions are.