EMD VS GE

[NortheastTrainMan]

Before Amtrak purchased the Genesis from GE wasn't there a competition between EMD and GE for selling Amtrak their locomotive model? Amtrak went with the Genesis but are there any drawings of EMD's model?

[QuietGuy]

After EMD was screwed by Long Island Railroad for their passenger locomotives, EMD decided it wasn't worth going after that market again. Several managers left after that fiasco. However, Alstrom did propose a model with EMD engines, but GE cut their price to get the contract at a loss, but will make up the difference with parts. EMD has too many substitute part makers to assure they would get a parts contract, so they won't sell their locomotives at a loss anymore.

[westr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Long Island units come along a few years after the F59PHI and GE's Genesis P40 came out? I always thought the F59PHI was EMD's answer to the P40, though I guess there could've been a proposed design that was never built. I didn't know EMD lost money on the Long Island units, but in that case I can see why they would stop pursuing passenger contracts, especially since the passenger locomotive market is so small compared to the freight market.

[QuietGuy]

The LIRR had a large group of custom specifications that did not make that locomotive design easily transferrable to other railroads. Those units were designed with a new underframe, totally different than the previous passenger units and very different from freight units. This meant all new supports for engine, radiators, electrical cabinets, etc unique for that unit. That time was also a transition period as some of the older body & frame guys were retiring and a new engineers were taking over. Unfortunately many of them were in the London engineering office and were transfered to the defense group when that was spun off, so were not able to work on locomotive designs anymore.

[DutchRailnut]

The Genesis is from 1992 the DE/DM is from 1995, EMD had no interest in designing a car body that would fit the tight north east clearances, GE was up to a challenge.

[bogieman]

The Genesis is from 1992 the DE/DM is from 1995, EMD had no interest in designing a car body that would fit the tight north east clearances, GE was up to a challenge.

EMD took the competition in 1991 with GE very seriously for the AMD-103 specified by AMTRAK. In fact, word was received on the last day of work before the Christmas shutdown in 1991 that GE had won the business, so the Director of Engineering held a last minute meeting to ream the troops before the holiday.

The model was to be an F70 using fabricated trucks from Henschel in Germany, now part of Bombardier, and a semi-moncoque carbody. It was a totally new design but quickly forgotten once the business was lost. The intital LIRR DE/DM30AC concept was partly based on the F70 but as the LIRR spec came out and EMD alliances changed from Henschel to Siemens, the design became more based on the Krupp monocoque carbody GE used, along with a derivative of the P40 truck incorporating disc brakes. With the exception of the radius between the sidewall and roof of the DE/DM, that loco meets AMTRAK's NEC clearance diagram. The radius was incorporated to match the C3 coach profile, which AMTRAK approved for specific tunnels, but for other customers such as NJT, a slope replacing the radius would have been used, fully meeting AMTRAK's diagram. Alas, that was never necessary as EMD abandoned the passenger business after the LIRR experience.

Dave