• Early 567C engines

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

  by SSW921
 
Starting in early 1953 some 60 567C engines were installed in EMD/GMD locomotives. This included the demonstrator F9A, seven current production line locomotives and a few SW900s built by GMD in December 1953. It appears that EMD was getting the railroads to test the then new 567C engine. The general information given is that the 567C commenced production in January 1954.

This data was compiled from the January 1, 1959 EMD Service Department Reference Data:
F9A EMD demonstrator 975 (February 1953)
F7A Soo 2228A,B-2230A,B
F7B WM 61B, 65B, 239B, 241B, 243B
FP7 Arabian American Oil Co. 1006-1007 (January 1953)
SW8 Canton 42-43
SW9 Weyerhaeuser 305
GP7 Santa Fe 2855-2858
Missouri Pacific 4292-4315, 4321-4324
GP7B Santa Fe 2788A-2789A, 2791A-2792A
SW900 CN 8535-8540 were built in December 1953.


Ed in Kentucky
  by SSW921
 
I forgot the E8s. Southern E8As 6910-6915 were built with the 567C engines.

Ed in Kentucky
  by Allen Hazen
 
Thanks for that! I knew that a number of late-production "7 series" EMD locomotives had been built with 567C engines, but hadn't seen a list.
--
The F7 set that EMD sent to demonstrate on the Norfolk and Western were uprated to 1600 hp (as opposed to the standard 1500). Since these units don't seem to be on your list, I assume that they had 567B engines... but that EMD was willing to rate them high because they were confident that more than 1500 hp would be available from the new engine that was probably already under development.
  by SSW921
 
The F7 set tested on N&W in 1952 may have been rated at 1600 horsepower per unit in response to the competition. Alco-GE, Baldwin and Fairbanks-Morse all had units rated at that horsepower threshold. EMD may have been laying down the gauntlet in that test. I corresponded with an EMD engineer of the time who had no knowledge of any special engines in the N&W test set.

EMD's Chief Engineer Eugene Kettering presented a paper to the American Society of Mechanical Engineers on November 29, 1951 at Atlantic City , New Jersey. The 567C engine is mentioned on pages 61-66 and page 70 of that paper as being under development. See http://utahrails.net/pdf/EMD_567_Histor ... t_1951.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ed in Kentucky
  by Allen Hazen
 
Thanks for linking to that document on 567 history! I had never looked at it (and so far have only had time to skim).
Remarks:
(1) This is the source of the Kettering wisecrack about not recalling any problems with the dipsticks of the prototype 201 engines.
(2) Both the pictures and the measurements show that the EMD diesel engines were direct descendants of the earlier Winton gas and distillate engines.
(3) Note the role of the Navy. EMD's large two-stroke was only one Navy-sponsored development: the Fairbanks-Morse OP engine and the Cooper-Bessemer ancestor of GE's FDL were also developed in part for the same 1930s U.S.N. desire for submarine engines! General Motors was big enough and rich enough that, after the initial developments (201 and 201A) they were able to pursue two slightly different aims: a version of the engine optimized for marine applications (GM Cleveland Division 248 and 278, whose model numbers look as if they were a continuance of the Winton series) and a separate version optimized for railroad service (with a new series of model numbers based on displacement).

(4) So the 567C program was well underway in 1951, with test engines that could be photographed to illustrate Kettering's history. EMD's people, therefore, were in a position to be confident that the new version could be made dependable at a power rating higher than that of 1500hp for the 16-cylinder 567B engine.
(5) The F7 demonstrator set (459A-459B-459C-459D) tested on the Norfolk and Western was built in August 1952: too early to use the 567C engine, which was still on the test stands, but late enough that EMD could reasonably expect to be able to give a higher power rating on the production units they hoped would follow a successful demonstration. (In the event, of course, N&W didn't think the diesels represented enough of an advance for them to want to start replacing the Y6B quite yet…) (Ironically, the best source of information on the demonstrators I was able to find was another document on Utah-Rails: after the demonstration was over, they were sold to the Union Pacific as their 1481-1496B-1496C-1482. I ***think*** the plan had been for them to go to U.P. from the start, and that they were painted yellow -- but with EMD rather than UP lettering -- when demonstrating on the N&W. But the source wasn't explicit enough for me to be 100% confident of this.)

(6) There wouldn't have been any difficulty in up-rating 16-567B engines for 1600 hp. 100hp per cylinder was standard for the 12-567B in hundreds of SW-9 switchers, and EMD's MRS-1 road switchers for the Army Transportation Corps were also apparently rated at 1600hp -- probably to match the more numerous Alco-GE MRS-1. Probably EMD felt that the higher rating would, over a period of time longer than the planned demonstrator tour, lead to undesirably higher maintenance costs(*): at any rate, this seems like a reasonable motive for them to stick with 1500hp for the F7/GP-7/SD-7 rather than trying to match the horsepower of the Alco, Baldwin and F-M competing models.

Sorry to go on so long: I doubt anything I have said will really seem new to you.
Thanks again for the information on early 567C-powered locomotives!

(*) At least for engines subjected to a lot of continuous high output running. I suspect the nature of switching service may have made them feel that 1200hp was safe to offer in the SW-9, even though the 12-567B was rated at only 1125hp in the E-8.
  by SSW921
 
I'm reposting the early 567C data with build dates for all those units. And added the five SD7s with 567C engines to the list.

This data was compiled from the January 1, 1959 EMD Service Department Reference Data:
F9A EMD demonstrator 975 (February 1953)
F7A Soo 2228A,B-2230A,B (August 1953)
F7B WM 61B, 65B, 239B, 241B, 243B (December 1953)
FP7 Arabian American Oil Co. 1006-1007 (January 1953)
SW8 Canton 42-43 (January 1954)
SW9 Weyerhaeuser 305 (December 1953)
GP7 Santa Fe 2855-2858 (July 1953)
Missouri Pacific 4292-4315, 4321-4324 (March to May,1954)
GP7B Santa Fe 2788A-2789A, 2791A-2792A (March and April 1953)
SW900 CN 8535-8540 were built by GMD in December 1953.
E8A Southern 6910-6915 (December 1953)
SD7 Southern Pacific 5321-5323; 5334-5335 (August and September 1953)

Ed in Kentucky
  by SSW921
 
Does anyone have reliable information on any GMD units built with the 567C engine in 1953. The GMD data I've found shows shipping dates of December 30-31, 1953 for six CN SW900s #8535-8540.

Ed in Kentucky