Susquehanna Transfer question

[BlockLine_4111]

Could resurrecting pax service on the "Q" significantly alleviate motor vehicle traffic on RT17 and Main/Essex St., Rochelle Avenue, and West Passaic Streets?

Motor vehicle traffic in Rochelle Park and its perimeter borders is horrific.

If new service on the "Q" included elevated transfer depo connections to PVL, BCL, and ML would the connectivity be sufficient to woo people away from their cars (and thus off Rochelle Park roads)?

Comments?

[henry6]

Only a good market study would answer your questions right now. However, look a the success of any of the existing services, look at how quickly weekend and mid day service on the PV developed, look at MNRR adding some 41 trains to its schedules in the next few weeks, look at what NJT has added over the past several years. Why these additions? Because people do ride public transit services when offered with reasonable, usable schedules.

Last weekend we rode from Dover, NJ to Danbury, CT. Standing room only trains in and out of city terminals. But in Ct, I noticed that westbound (city bound) ten car express trains leave Stamford with standing room only. So say there are a thousand people on a 10 car train and even if 10 of those 24 daily express trains are that full, that would be between 5000 and 10,000 fewer cars on the CT to NYC roads. Likewise pick any NYP bound train in NJT and do the same math. Not scientific, nope, but it does give you an idea what should happen.

[nyswfan]

[quote="BlockLine_4111"][quote="henry6"]And yes, too, the Susie Q was the last user of Jersey City terminal as I believe the Erie had dumped the Northern RR trains by then.[/quote]

Too bad the "Q" couldn't be reconfigured to run to Hoboken by EL/NJDOT.
maybe they'd still be alive and running today.[/quote]

I was looking at the NYSW route. It appears that there is a connection north of the patterson station and south of the hawthorne station with current NJT trackage.

I would love to see NJT trains on the Q from sparta junction to hoboken.

[CarterB]

IIRC, the more recent NJT proposal/s were to use exactly that routing....Main Line to Hawthorne Jct, then up the NYS&W to Butler, Newfoundland or Sparta. But the NIMBYs in Sparta don't want it, so I quess interest waned.

[nyswfan]

[quote="CarterB"]IIRC, the more recent NJT proposal/s were to use exactly that routing....Main Line to Hawthorne Jct, then up the NYS&W to Butler, Newfoundland or Sparta. But the NIMBYs in Sparta don't want it, so I quess interest waned.[/quote]

Nimby has to be the most heinous groups that can be formed.

1. The rail line is already existing & active.

2. You bought a house next to/near an active/existing rail line.

3. The east bound frieght coming through at 4AM and the west bound frieght at 10 PM DONT bother you, but a couple of passenger trains would?

4. All of these people that think "i wont use the train so I dont want it"... YEAH and all the people that DO want the train, and would use it, wont be driving on 15 to 80 or 23 to whatever.

[nyswfan]

In a perfect world, Sussex County would have the best mass transit if Conrail didnt scrap the lines for Pennies on the dollar....

Heres how my sussed county mass transit map would look If I had my way.

1. The Cuttoff would remain intact. Where the Cuttoff crosses over the Sussex Branch, a transfer station would be built. Express trains would run from here to mid-town/hoboken.

2. The Sussex branch would remain intact. Trains would run north/south of andover along a possibaly double tracked line with storage in port morris and branchville.

3. The L & HR from sparta juntion to AT LEAST the connection with the sussex branch would remain intact. Warwick, Vernon, Franklin, Sparta would all be seved to the transfer station in Andover(1).

4. L&NE trackage would remain intact from AT LEAST the connection with the sussex branch north to Wantage & Sussex Boro.

[MickD]

Why couldn't Sparta just been bypassed and left without a station?Up here we had a similar situation with Nimbys and the MBTA in Hingham.Millons of dollars were spent on a tunnel so trains wouldn't run above ground through the commercial district because of merchant opposition.Now after all is said and done they find they're losing business to a new mall out by Route 3 and are complaining about the station at
W.Hingham being too far from business district and that one should be built in proximity.Start up this service with stations at Stockholm ,Beaver Lake and Vernon which as I understand wants is and I have no doubt in the near future Spartan commuters would want a station there.If they don't want to pay for it,no problem,just run through.

[BlockLine_4111]

I'd like to see a Phase I service where NJT would "fast cycle" two diesel sets between Butler station/yard and Secaucus Transfer. When the first e/b set would enter the NJT ML the second set would then enter the "Q" racing west to Butler to become e/b set #2. The sequence would repeat itself with the first set returing west from Secaucus Transfer if this makes sense. Once ridership from localities Midland Park, Wyckoff, F-Lakes, Oakland, PL, Riverdale/Bloomingdale, and Butler takes hold then Phase II could explore running through but not necessarily to holy Sparta.

[Steve F45]

This service is something that is desperately needed, but one that will i think never get done. that stupid dinky service is a complete waste from paterson to hackensack. There is nothing at either end to visit.

Service in my mind should be from hoboken with a new connection to an extended nysw main line, station stop at the north bergen bus park and ride. Then Vince lombardi since the loops and ramps for it are right at the tracks when going north on 95. Then maybe if not there, then hackensack at river road. Since the record is leaving that building it is supposed to be torn down. Would be a great location for another park and ride and at a busy location with the bus terminal right up the road.
Next would be and somethign i've thought of, summit ave or prospect ave (similar to tonnelle ave) with the station beeing below street level. Then where the current superfund site clean up is underway in maywood, just east of rt 17. There another park and ride to get cars off of 17. Then somewhere around the saddle brook/elmwood parkk area, a stop in paterson. A small station in hawthorn where the old restored station is. Station stop in wyckoff at wartendyke. Then franklin lakes, oakland, river dale (maybe), butler, hardystown and whatever towns are west of there since im not to familiar with that local.

I had submitted something like this to NJT's customer service. When they got back to me they had given me the email address to the project people in charge of the current nysw project. Which I thought was interesting.

[MickD]

Butler should have been the intial goal all along.It could've been up and running long ago.All those towns Blockline lists are all towns that the patronage would inall probabilty justify the service from the get go.All the time and money that will spent on the Hawthorne to Hackensack could have been used to a much better use restoring Butler-Hawthorne-Secaucus-Hoboken first.

[BlockLine_4111]

Butler should have been the intial goal all along.It could've been up and running long ago..

Very true yet the politicans, etc. had this one track mind w/vision of Sparta being the end point. With all of the issues, resistance, etc. there and 2 decades gone by we still have nothing today.

All those towns Blockline lists are all towns that the patronage would inall probabilty justify the service from the get go...

Especially the money towns Wyckoff and F-Lakes .

All the time and money that will spent on the Hawthorne to Hackensack could have been used to a much better use restoring Butler-Hawthorne-Secaucus-Hoboken first.

True but why even go to Hoboken initially, just terminate at Secaucus and cycle the sets up/down the line. Hoboken could come in at a later time after the intial service proves itself out.

[nyswfan]

[quote="BlockLine_4111"]True but why even go to Hoboken initially, just terminate at Secaucus and cycle the sets up/down the line. Hoboken could come in at a later time after the intial service proves itself out.[/quote]

I use NJ transit rail everyday. From my observation. People generally do not like transfers. If your going to force a rider from butler to make a transfer at secaucus to get to hoboken they will just get in there cars and drive to wayne rt23 for one seat service.

[Port Jervis]

Butler should have been the intial goal all along.It could've been up and running long ago.All those towns Blockline lists are all towns that the patronage would inall probabilty justify the service from the get go.All the time and money that will spent on the Hawthorne to Hackensack could have been used to a much better use restoring Butler-Hawthorne-Secaucus-Hoboken first.

(sorry about resurrecting an old thread)

I agree. Demand would drop off west of Butler, that's probably why Susie-Q commuter service originated here. Stockholm and Newfoundland would be minor stops, and if Sparta doesn't want train service, they don't deserve it. IIRC, there's a yard there as well, though I'm not sure how large and how important it is to NYS&W freight operations. Butler, Pompton Lakes, Oakland, Wyckoff, Midland Park, Hawthorne, Patterson, Secaucus, Hoboken...if it's built, they will come.

I hate DMU's. It's the cheap alternative, now all the rage with the success of the RiverLINE. It's inability to co-exist with heavy rail makes it very restrictive. I want to see both the Suzie-Q and the Northern Branch done as heavy rail diesels going directly to Hoboken, and possibly NYP if the dual modes work out.

[oknazevad]

Just a minor note, the DMUs planned for the NYSW are not light rail type, and therefore can be run with heavy frieghts. Largely needed so they can share the Paterson-to-Hawthorne Passaic River bridge, which is single track. The real reason for the Hawthorne-to-Hackensack service is to provide local service within Paterson.

[MickD]

Which is only redundant, as NJ Transit has more than adequate local bus service that is easily accessed
along several main streets. The only way I see is service beyond Hawthorne being viable is if both NV and Suskie lines were run directly into Hoboken. Maywood & Rochelle Park don't even want it.
Correct? I really don't even advocate NYS&W service beyond Hawthorne.The connection to the Main Line is already in place and a new station wouldn't be needed.NJ Transit had all those surplus Comet 1 coaches that they sold to other transit agencies,some of which could have been put into use from either Butler or Newfoundland and had this up and running years ago.