Railroad Forums
Local power for NYSW? (was: NJT GP40ph)
- Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.
Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, NJ Vike
Good responses on qualifying the three items I tossed out there folks. Within the RR community there is a tremendous amount of disconnect concerning what those terms mean.
My experience has indicayed that any work to be performed needs to be spelled out in very specific and minute detail. The term boiler plate comes to mind.
Often times what you think you are receiving for funds expended and what the vendor feels they are obligated to are vastly different.
It goes without saying that the higher the level of renewal and staying close to OEM minimal clearances leads to a more expensive product. my position is if the money has to be spent spend it once not twice.
Another peculiar term in the industry is running take out (RTO) that in itself is an oxymoron as it relates to what condition the equipment that is being purchased. Taken out runiing, running good, running poorly...
You get the picture.
Locomotive diesels are not slow speed in the true sense nor are they considered medium speed such 16-149 twin tubo Detroits. They fall somewhere in between.
A remanufacture (speaking of loco diesels here) will consist of all new components other than the block, pan, crankshaft and miscellaneous castings.
A rebuild will reuse other components such as connecting rods/gears, shafts, blowers, turbo chargers and other items that have been reworked to OEM specs. New items will include liners/eads/pistons/rings/bearings/bushings
An overhaul will use reconditioned liners/heads/pistons with new rings, bearings, gaskets. Usually an inframe diesel overhaul is where this would take place.
Cheers.
Kingfish
My experience has indicayed that any work to be performed needs to be spelled out in very specific and minute detail. The term boiler plate comes to mind.
Often times what you think you are receiving for funds expended and what the vendor feels they are obligated to are vastly different.
It goes without saying that the higher the level of renewal and staying close to OEM minimal clearances leads to a more expensive product. my position is if the money has to be spent spend it once not twice.
Another peculiar term in the industry is running take out (RTO) that in itself is an oxymoron as it relates to what condition the equipment that is being purchased. Taken out runiing, running good, running poorly...
You get the picture.
Locomotive diesels are not slow speed in the true sense nor are they considered medium speed such 16-149 twin tubo Detroits. They fall somewhere in between.
A remanufacture (speaking of loco diesels here) will consist of all new components other than the block, pan, crankshaft and miscellaneous castings.
A rebuild will reuse other components such as connecting rods/gears, shafts, blowers, turbo chargers and other items that have been reworked to OEM specs. New items will include liners/eads/pistons/rings/bearings/bushings
An overhaul will use reconditioned liners/heads/pistons with new rings, bearings, gaskets. Usually an inframe diesel overhaul is where this would take place.
Cheers.
Kingfish
I think it is important to keep people like kingfish on boards like this, just to help crush the rumors.
Lets not piss him off, so he leaves.
Brian
Lets not piss him off, so he leaves.
Brian
It was a mistake about the NJT Geeps but i do understand about the private information. I was unaware what I was asking was private and he had every right to say what he did say. I am still learning. I am sorry for the stupid initial question. As for the GP 38 question i am just trying to understand the business decisions as was stated about. I put no blame on anyone. We are all here to learn and understand an indstry we might not be involved with everyday.
Good deal all around, no harm done, you asked questions because you were curious... and in the end, you gained some business knowledge too.
People in competitive businesses study different things. I was told years ago, and I still can't be sure how true it was, that a competitor with a similar factory measured the rust on rail sidings to determine how active the competing rail customer was, to see how strong their manufacturing business was.
Things like equipment leases sound simple, but it's a way of estimating monthly liabilities, to determine how aggressively someone might solicit additional transportation business, or simply their poterntial level of indebtedness.
People in competitive businesses study different things. I was told years ago, and I still can't be sure how true it was, that a competitor with a similar factory measured the rust on rail sidings to determine how active the competing rail customer was, to see how strong their manufacturing business was.
Things like equipment leases sound simple, but it's a way of estimating monthly liabilities, to determine how aggressively someone might solicit additional transportation business, or simply their poterntial level of indebtedness.
Kingfish- thanks for taking us through this discussion regarding locmotive rebuilds and all... interesting data about the GP18's that they are largely unmodified from their as-built configurations... talk about museum pieces.
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Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
Finger Lakes seems to be making a more or less unmodified GP9 work for them (1751). But I can't argue that the NYS&W GP18s and GP20s are well-worn units at best. I'm sure it's more cost-efficent to lease units in better shape than to upgrade these - and they'd probably need a complete remanufacturing, stripped down to the bare frame, examined for cracks, and put back together with all new electrical gear and power assemblies at the least, to be good reliable units.
Per a Trains Magazine article on the TP&W from a few years ago, the GP20s weren't that great when the TP&W got them - and while they cycled in and out to the NYS&W for work, the work they got wasn't all that much either. While the Santa Fe did rebuild them, they were high-milage and well worn for the most part.
Odds are if the NYS&W spent what it did in maintenance on some of it's locomotives, up front on better power, they'd have been ahead profit-wise in the long run.
Per a Trains Magazine article on the TP&W from a few years ago, the GP20s weren't that great when the TP&W got them - and while they cycled in and out to the NYS&W for work, the work they got wasn't all that much either. While the Santa Fe did rebuild them, they were high-milage and well worn for the most part.
Odds are if the NYS&W spent what it did in maintenance on some of it's locomotives, up front on better power, they'd have been ahead profit-wise in the long run.
Coming from a capital equipment business, I can tell you this:
When people make decisions about replacing things such as locomotives, they usually fire up a spreadsheet and plug in the useful data, such as projected maintenance and fueling costs of a locomtive, and possibly other things I may be overlooking - an overhaul or repaint, conversion to -2 electronics... Also how long the locomotive is projected to last, and what it's worth at the end of that life span.
Then another spreadsheet is made showing the purchase price of a new unit, fueling and repair costs, and what its worth at the end of a service life. Those two units are compared, a financial backer is consulted, and a business case is made for the best choice.
It's not like two railfans on one of our forums discussing their favorite units, and coming up with a decision on everybody's consensus favorite. As kingfish notes, the RR is there to generate a return on the stockholders' investment.[/list]
When people make decisions about replacing things such as locomotives, they usually fire up a spreadsheet and plug in the useful data, such as projected maintenance and fueling costs of a locomtive, and possibly other things I may be overlooking - an overhaul or repaint, conversion to -2 electronics... Also how long the locomotive is projected to last, and what it's worth at the end of that life span.
Then another spreadsheet is made showing the purchase price of a new unit, fueling and repair costs, and what its worth at the end of a service life. Those two units are compared, a financial backer is consulted, and a business case is made for the best choice.
It's not like two railfans on one of our forums discussing their favorite units, and coming up with a decision on everybody's consensus favorite. As kingfish notes, the RR is there to generate a return on the stockholders' investment.[/list]
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
