Distance question

[mainetrain]

What is the difference in the distance between Passaic Junction and say Campbell Hall, (susy Q vs. Erie)? Seems that the Susy Q is much longer and with many more hills to conquer.

[Noel Weaver]

The NYS&W might be longer and have more grades but this is one BIG
difference and that is that the NYS&W route has NO passenger trains to
interfere with the passage of their freight trains.
Noel Weaver

[mainetrain]

I'm aware of that, just wanted to know the mileage, thanks

[cjvrr]

Took a bit of digging, but the distance between Passaic Junction and Campbell Hall;

Via NYS&W mileage is 86.05.


via NJT / MN mileage is 49.4.

[mainetrain]

37 miles, plus the gradients Noel said, that's alot

Thank You for the info

[BlockLine_4111]

The mileage differential would certainly nix the possibility of pax service to PJ via the Q.

[Passaic River Rat]

Here is a question I occasionally ponder:

Why doesn't the NYSW run via up the Bergen County Line via to Binghamton via Suffern. I know the tracks belong to NJT. But....

Most of the properties sold by Conrail to NJT retained a stipulation that Conrail, its successors, and ASSIGNS (emphasis added by me) retain perpetual easements along the properties sold (aka trackage rights)

So, if NS owns the trackage rights, and they have the right to assign these trackage rights, why isn't the NYS&W paying NS to operate over the shorter route? If NS was willing to lease the Southern Tier east of BH to NYS&W, why not throw in the NJT portion?

Isn't this how the Morristown & Erie got trackage rights all over NJT?

[waldwickrailfan]

Here is a question I occasionally ponder:

Why doesn't the NYSW run via up the Bergen County Line via to Binghamton via Suffern. I know the tracks belong to NJT. But....

Most of the properties sold by Conrail to NJT retained a stipulation that Conrail, its successors, and ASSIGNS (emphasis added by me) retain perpetual easements along the properties sold (aka trackage rights)

So, if NS owns the trackage rights, and they have the right to assign these trackage rights, why isn't the NYS&W paying NS to operate over the shorter route? If NS was willing to lease the Southern Tier east of BH to NYS&W, why not throw in the NJT portion?

Isn't this how the Morristown & Erie got trackage rights all over NJT?

although many people will enjoy that...i think there are a few problems with that.
1) the SU-99 leaves in the beginning/middle of rush hour. imagine a freight train running in rush hour...on friday.
2) the SU-100 will come through in the beginning of the morning rush. that could get people to work late. and it will block 2 tracks crossing over to get to NYSW tracks in Saddle Brook.

[sullivan1985]

1) the SU-99 leaves in the beginning/middle of rush hour. imagine a freight train running in rush hour...on friday.

The reason they leave at 5-5:30P on the SU99 is because they are estimating that by the time the train reaches HJ (CP Hudson Junction), NJT 61 will already be through. This will allow for the SU99 to be held at CP Hall on the siding. If they have a short train with good power, they could run as far west as Otisville behind NJT 61 where both trains will wait for NJT 68 to clear. If the train is long and heavy, they will get held east of Sarah Wells Trail and wait for NJT 68 to clear CP Hudson Jct. NJT dispatchers will not let SU99 ahead of passenger trains unless there is a sufficient time gap between them.

If the SU99 was to have its route changed to run via the Bergen County Line, they would simply leave in the middle of the day or in the dead of night when there are much less trains to interfere. This is usually when the NS locals are out and about. Being that track speed is faster, route is more direct and the grades are less intense on the NJT route, they could be clear of Suffern in no time.

2) the SU-100 will come through in the beginning of the morning rush. that could get people to work late. and it will block 2 tracks crossing over to get to NYSW tracks in Saddle Brook.

Same goes for the SU100. The train could just be simply scheduled to leave Binghamton at another time of day to avoid the problems of rush hour traffic.

If the trains entire route was changed, that doesn't mean they have to keep the same departure times.

However nice this would be for the NYSW to get this train over the road a bit faster, I highly doubt this will ever happen. Right now, the Q only runs one road train a day alternating in direction every day except Saturday. The train is usually made up of low-priority general freight, drills for customers along the Southern Tier between Port Jervis and Binghampton or empties. They have no need to use NJ Transit unless there is some kind of operation problem between HJ and PC.

The NYSW used to run down the Bergen County Line into BT years ago when the line was being rehabilitated between Butler and Warwick. This video shows a detour from 1996 of that happening, but not as a result of the rehab project. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc3KQf6_KBE

There have been a few NYSW detours over the Bergen County in recent history though:
CSX/NYSW SU-164 - Mahwah, NJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEo4yMB6rV4
CSX/NYSW ML-401 - Salisbury Mills, NY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNSsKKB29yY

[Steve F45]

Here is a question I occasionally ponder:
So, if NS owns the trackage rights, and they have the right to assign these trackage rights, why isn't the NYS&W paying NS to operate over the shorter route? If NS was willing to lease the Southern Tier east of BH to NYS&W, why not throw in the NJT portion?
Isn't this how the Morristown & Erie got trackage rights all over NJT?

Your question there alone should be a good reason why NYSW doesn't do it. Why pay someone else to use the tracks when you can simply use the ones you already own?